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To: markomalley; lightman

"Do you see it as a matter of the female 'ordinations' as causing them to lose that distinction or as a matter of an eventual watering-down of the legitimacy?"

It is a violation of the canons of the One Church to ordain women beyond minor orders such as reader and likely some special form of the diaconate. Ordination of women to the priesthood and episcopacy is a clear violation. From my pov these women are not bishops and cannot ever become bishops, thus they are not within the Apostolic Succession or would any bishop consecrated by them. For that matter, one must also question the validity of the ordination of any priests ordained by them.

As to the male bishops within the Apostolic Succession who consecrated these women, well I don't think that their violation of the canons vitiates the Apostolic Succession. The history of the early Church is filled with bishops and patriarchs who were raging heretics but their position in the Apostolic Succession was never questioned nor to my knowledge the validity of the ordinations they performed before being anathemized as heretics. Even today we see vagante bishops running around ordaining people. The ordinands are certainly not ordained into the Church but there is clearly something there (absent an anathema/excommunication)even if it is uncanonical and irregular.


1,923 posted on 03/15/2007 5:56:20 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; lightman; Salvation
nor to my knowledge the validity of the ordinations they performed before being anathemized as heretics.

That, in of itself, brings up two interesting questions. First, what about their status after they have done the heretical act? In the Latin Church, there is the concept of latae sentinae excommunication. Do the concilliar councils call for automatic anathemization, or must it be declared? If so, who has the authority to declare it? (As they unequivicobly fell under the authority of the Latin Patriarch before the schism, would it be his perogative to anathemize them?)

Secondly, after they were anathemized, would they have the ability to perform valid, but illicit, ordinations? (I concur that their episcopal ordination cannot be removed)

I'm pretty certain I know what the Catholic position is on this, but curious what the Orthodox one would be.

1,929 posted on 03/15/2007 8:26:20 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus CINO-RINO GRAZIE NO)
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