No, I think that's why the Holy Spirit speaks to the individual through the Word, prayer and believing friends so there won't be the arrogant nonsense of group think.
Posted on 03/04/2007 8:21:23 AM PST by Iscool
I must admit I chuckled a bit because soooo many times (especially on the science threads) I've had occasion to testify as to the "proof" of God which is of course not a scientific proof (since God cannot be put under a microscope or observed with a telescope) --- but one which in no way can be mistaken.
That proof of course is the indwelling Spirit Himself. I have known Him personally - and Jesus Christ, personally, because of Him - for nigh onto a half century and counting.
An atheist's claim that God doesn't exist is a knee-slapper to a Christian.
FWIW, there are caucus threads.
No, I think that's why the Holy Spirit speaks to the individual through the Word, prayer and believing friends so there won't be the arrogant nonsense of group think.
Catholics believe THEY are the only true church. I can't change their opinion but it's just an opinion. God's church is the entire body of believers, not a structure, not a denomination.
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Uncle Chip,
Purgatory has already been covered (by me) in posts 904 and 1256 on this thread, but since you evidently weren't paying attention the first two times, I will re-post the info a third time:
Jesus talks about not getting out of prison until paying the last penny:
Matthew 5:26
Matthew 18:34-35
Luke 12:59
St. Paul says "each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire." 1 Corinthians 3:13-15
Praying for the dead is very clearly discussed in 2 Maccabees 12:38-46, which was part of Holy Scripture for 1500 years, but was conveniently taken out of the Protestant Bible because it conflicted with Protestant Theology. "For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin." 2 Maccabees 12:44-45
I know you will argue with me, but I am posting this for the benefit of others who might want an answer.
Jesus said, "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."
When the Episcopal church ordained a practicing homosexual, Vickie Gene Robinson, the people participating said they were being led by the Holy Spirit. This is obviously patently untrue as they were defying God's word in Holy Scripture. Many other Protestant denominations are also ordaining homosexuals, encouraging their parishioners to practice birth control, and approving abortion and divorce. The Catholic church's stance for God's Law and for the Gospel of Life are two of the many reasons I converted from being a Protestant (first Presbyterian then Episcopal).
There are 30,000 different Protestant denominations now and the number is growing. This is contrary to Jesus' wishes for us. We can know this by reading the High Priestly Prayer found in John 17 where Jesus prays 5 times that "they all may be one" (vs. 11, vs. 21 [twice], vs. 22, vs. 23). St. Ignatius of Antioch, who was martyred at Rome between 90-117 AD and was probably a friend of St. John the Apostle said this in his letter to the Philadelphians 3.2: "Do not err, my brethren. If any man follows him that makes a schism in the Church, he shall not inherit the kingdom of God. If any one walks according to a strange opinion, he agrees not with the passion of Christ." This man knew the Apostles and those who followed the Apostles and knew what their teaching was, which they had been taught by Jesus. The teaching of Jesus, the Apostles, and the Early Church Fathers is that there be ONE CHURCH.
You said something about the doctrine of Purgatory which was not true. I pointed out that what you said was not what we teach. Instead of acknowledging your error you changed the subject FROM what the doctrine is TO whether or where there is Scriptural support for it. I pointed out that you were changing the subject. You became offensive and accusatory. I said that it was not a matter of grave concern to me whether we agreed or not. Evidently you did not follow how the conversation went, so I have recapitulated it.
But if you really want to talk about Purgatory, I will point out again that your equation of Purgatory to Hell is mistaken. By now you have also been reminded that there have been several other posts which deal with what some offer as Scriptural support for the doctrine. I have already made clear my position on the possibility of assembling conclusive arguments from Scripture. And I still think that claiming something is overwhelming does not make it so.
You have been trying to persuade many of some theory involving Simon Magus and what day of the week God wants us to worship on. I am not trying to persuade anybody of anything. Mostly I try to look at arguments and to clarify for myself the proposition under consideration. I think these things are too important for bitter debate, and I cop to getting irritable when gross errors of reason are made, for example arguing from probabilities to certainties.
I hope this is clear.
LOL.
If WIST isn't an acronym, it should be.
(Wish I'd Said That)
You are right for a lot of reasons.
1 Cor. 12:13-14 "For by one body-whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one member but many."
The body is all those indwelt by the Holy Spirit. IOW, all believers are united together, not by the church they are a member of here on earth, but by the church they have been sealed into by the Holy Spirit.
Also, if you look at the development of Christianity you do not find the monobishophoric system until at least a couple generations after the Apostolic era had ended. IOW, the idea that there was always just one church operating under a hierarchal system is a myth.
Hey! It was one of those old hell, fire and brimstone guys that first got me to realize how lost I was. :-)
As mud --- as usual.
Me either!
This has to do with rewards for Christian service in the Day of the Lord. There is nothing about Purgatory in there.
Jesus talks about not getting out of prison until paying the last penny: Matthew 5:26/ Matthew 18:34-35/ Luke 12:59
These are a parable that Jesus is using to teach a point. If one is going to say that this prison is Purgatory, then by doing what he says, one can stay out of it.
But think about the illustration: How does one earn money in prison to pay someone back to get out of it. Do you remember debtors prisons? People were thrown in prison until they paid their debt, but they could never pay their debt because they were in prison --- so they never got out.
I hate to muddy things up again, but some people have family and friends, who help them out when they're in trouble.
I read 'em. And, as it happens, I tend to understand them. Judeo-Christian practice, huh? It's really funny how you support things when you support them, and how you dismiss things that you do not support.
Isn't our church. It's the Church of Christ. Everything else is a 2D photocopy. Isn't a theory of apostolic succession. It's true and documented. Aren't our priests. They're God's.
But it is true. There is not one place in scripture where Jesus or the apostles or anyone created a gallon or even a drop of "Holy Water".
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