Posted on 03/04/2007 8:21:23 AM PST by Iscool
So since Jerusalem was part of the Roman Empire, the sacerdotal chair could have been in Jerusalem?
Individuals, or small groups of people, even several million people, who have read the Catechism is not a substantial number based on the total number of Catholics.
I credit you for your efforts but cannot accept that as proof that Catholics, as a general rule, read the Catechism.
Once again, I am sorry if I insulted you.
The second person of the Blessed Trinity delegated certain authority to all of the apostles and delegated certain authority to Simon Peter. He also charged the apostles with certain responsibilities and charged Simon Peter with particular ones.
He set it in motion by giving Peter the vision.
Yes he did.
We (collectively) are the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12). Christ is the head. Peter had a certain function in the body as did Paul. The revelation to make this fundamental change needed to come to Peter, in his function in the Body. It needed then to be communicated to Paul and the rest of the members of the Body.
When the informal guidance that Peter provided started to be misinterpreted, they formalized that guidance through a Council of the Church...where it was codified (Acts 15:6 and following). As the result of this Council, they issued a formal communique: "The brethren, both the apostles and the elders, to the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cili'cia, greeting. Since we have heard that some persons from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell."(Acts 15:23-29)
It matters which happened first because we want to recount accurately what happened in the early Church. Because an error in that area can lead to errors in other areas, as well. Including doctrinal error.
Exactly. And be loving. And patient. And pray for guidance!
I don't know how you do it, Salvation. Especially cleaning the kitchen and washing dishes. :(
[Matthew 10:5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Do you have any idea why "The Twelve" were instructed not to go to the "Gentiles"? If you don't, at least you now know that Our Lord told them not to go there. Do you think Jesus was just talking to the wind here....or do you think it's possible he actually meant it?
Rome was Gentile! Babylon was not! [1 Peter 5:13] Now, if you were The Apostle Peter...and had received this direction from your Lord.......would you go to Rome?
Rome in the mid first century was the center of an empire and the largest city in the world. It had the largest Jewish population of anywhere outside of the Holy Land.
Babylon in the mid first century was an abandoned city in ruins with almost nobody living there.
The Church fathers were always in agreement that Babylon was code for Rome.
Well....evidently you haven't read the Early Church Fathers because just about everyone one of them writes about Simon Magus and his influence in the city of Rome!
When Justin Martyr wrote [152 A.D.] his Apology, the sect of the Simonians appears to have been formidable, for he speaks four times of their founder, Simon; and we need not doubt that he identified him with the Simon of the Acts. He states that he was a Samaritan, adding that his birthplace was a village called Gitta; he describes him as a formidable magician, and tells that he came to ROME in the days of Claudius Caesar (45 A.D.), and made such an impression by his magical powers, THAT HE WAS HONORED AS A GOD, a statue being erected to him on the Tiber, between the two bridges, bearing the inscription ‘Simoni deo Sancto’ (i.e., the holy god Simon) (Dictionary of Christian Biography, Vol. 4, p. 682)
Do you want me to go on?
Simon Pater??? Where do you get that from??
Pater is the word for Father in Latin....you know that. He was called "Father Simon" or Simon Pater.
As a side question....have you ever wondered why the Apostle Luke spends so much time with this guy. He hardly mentions most of the Apostles.....but spends half a chapter letting us know about this jerk.
I don't attend any church....nor am I a member of any church. I observe the Sabbaths and Festivals on my own. Been doing this since 1960.
Please don't anyone ask me if I slaughter any animals for temple sacrifice....because that would just be a stupid question!
Actually, "pater" would almost never be used for father, the normal Latin word for father would be "abba."
See post #1428. You know....I had never even heard of "Jack Chick" until I started bantering back and forth with you guys. I've still never seen one of his publications....nor do I care to.
I don't believe anyone is being critical of The Apostle Peter. We're just saying he was not one of your Popes....and was never in Rome.
I am not a Protestant, don't care for the theology of Martin Luther and have never claimed that I did. I've been accused of Sola Scriptura on more than one occasion, but I quote many historical sources to back up my theology. I do not Quote Martin Luther.
If you believe anything is falsely interpreted than you should probably point out the discrepancy instead of just casting aspersions.
Well, apparently I haven't studied them as closely as you have. Of course, I have enough to do in my life so as not to keep track of Gnostic sects...
But I do see what you're saying about Simon the magician being tracked with that gnositic sect. And I do stand corrected.
As a side question....have you ever wondered why the Apostle Luke spends so much time with this guy. He hardly mentions most of the Apostles.....but spends half a chapter letting us know about this jerk.
You do realize, of course, that the Simon Luke speaks about in Acts 8 is not an apostle, right?
"Abba" is Aramaic.
Since you do use the Church Fathers in your studies, please refer to the citations made in this post for Patristic references to Peter being in Rome and having founded the Church there.
It was also Pagan....and Our Lord had instructed The Twelve not to go there [Matthew 10:5}! What part of this do you not understand?
Babylon in the mid first century was an abandoned city in ruins with almost nobody living there.
Balderdash! And when these Jews had understood what piety the king had towards God, and what kindness he had for Esdras, they were all greatly pleased; nay, many of them took their effects with them, and came to Babylon, as very desirous of going down to Jerusalem; but then the entire body of the people of Israel remained in that country; wherefore there are but two tribes in Asia and Europe subject to the Romans, while the ten tribes are beyond Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers.
The above quote is from Josephus, first century Jewish Historian. [Antiquities Book XI, Chapter V, Paragraph 2]
I get so tired of you folks trying to dismiss the humongous Jewish population which still lived in Babylon during the first century! Peter was sent to these folks [Galatians 3:7], not the Gentiles. Paul was commissioned to evangelize the Gentiles....you know that. Why continue to harp about the insignificance of Babylon when you know it to be false?
Not if he were considered a god....and he was!
The term PETER was one of the earliest names for the pagan gods. It lasted as late as Greek and Roman times. But by that time the term also took on a widespread secular meaning. It came generally to mean "father" or "parent." But this was not its primary meaning at all. The word PATER, when used in the religious addresses of the Greeks and Romans, meant NOT, as is supposed, a father or parent; but related to the divine influence of the Deity, called by the people of the East, PATOR.
Of course. I was making the point that Luke spends much time describing this guy but barely speaks of most of the Apostles....
Kind of strange...wouldn't you agree? In other words...why is the story of Simon Magus so important to scripture?
Correct. And we learn from the ante-Nicene fathers that this Simon Magus went to Rome and established the sacerdotal chair of an ecclesiastical system of a counterfeit Christianity, and this Simon was its first Pope.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.