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To: Eagle Eye

>> To believe this means that you have to reject clear scripture that says that Jesus was inferior to God, was a created being... <<

Where does scripture call Jesus a created being, inferior to God? You say "don't quote John 1." Why not? It is the philosophical treatise which is the foundation of the gospels! It says it perfectly:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... and the Word became flesh and lived among us."

In other words, "In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God, and Jesus became flesh and lived among us." Here is the crux of the mustery of trinity: that the Word was WITH God, yet the Word WAS God.

You say I can't use terms not found in the bible, such as "God, the Son." But that IS in the bible! "It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father's heart, who has made him known."

The very phrase "begotten Son of God" is a denial of monotheism, unless the Son of God is also God himself. (We are sons of God through adoption, not through having been begotten.) That which is begotten is the same nature of that which begets. A dog begets a dog; a human begets a human. That which is begotten of a god is a god, or at least a demigod. But Jesus is begotten of God (even though he was not made). Hence, if God is a god, then Jesus is a god. Yet, if there can be only one god, then God and Jesus share the same divinity.

WE are NOT begotten of the Father; we are created. That which is created is less than that which creates, for it depends on its creator for existence; that which is begotten is the same as that which begets.

This is not philisophical deduction; it is merely defining what words mean. And yes, to say "begotten of the Father" does mean "sharing in the nature of the Father."


69 posted on 02/06/2007 8:21:36 AM PST by dangus
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To: dangus
Slow down...you're starting to attribute things to me that I didn't say or didn't say in the context you claim. John 1 is used as a proof text but is an excellent example of a text that seemingly says something to support your beliefs while creating many contradictory verses in the Bible.

The issue is that if you cannot grasp the meaning and messge of clear, unambiguous writing then you are unlikely to graps the meanings of other verses.

Can you honestly hold on to one or two verses that seem to say what you want them to say while ignoring verses that clearly set up contradictory positions?

Obviously God is superior to Jesus. That also makes Jesus inferior to God. There is no disrespct there.

1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

It is also clear that Jesus does not exalt himself against God and sits at God's right hand.

You say I can't use terms not found in the bible, such as "God, the Son." But that IS in the bible! "It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father's heart, who has made him known."

You simply made that up. As you must to support unBiblical teachings.

The very phrase "begotten Son of God" is a denial of monotheism, unless the Son of God is also God himself. (We are sons of God through adoption, not through having been begotten.) That which is begotten is the same nature of that which begets. A dog begets a dog; a human begets a human. That which is begotten of a god is a god, or at least a demigod. But Jesus is begotten of God (even though he was not made). Hence, if God is a god, then Jesus is a god. Yet, if there can be only one god, then God and Jesus share the same divinity.

LOL..what utter nonsense! Very simply, if God is God and Jesus is God then you have two Gods. If you still want to say that those two are really one who is two, don't for get, there is only one God and that God is one, not two, or three.

God is spirit, (John 4:24) and not flesh. If God Almighty can create the heavens and the earth, I don't suppose it is hard at all for him to creat a perfect sperm inside a young believer named Mary in order to have a perfect human baby who doesn't share the sinful nature found in human blood since the fall of Adam. This is also the 'genesis' of Christ. Unless, of course, you really believe that God (who is spirit) somehow actually slept with Mary like some incubus. But I don't think so.

I'd address the rest of your post but it seems like you're off on a tangent.

83 posted on 02/06/2007 9:14:15 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There oughta be a law against excess legislation.)
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