Posted on 02/02/2007 7:13:18 PM PST by Coleus
Its name means universal, and yet critics charge the Catholic Church is losing followers in the United States because it isn't inclusive enough. Outraged by the sexual-abuse scandals and chafed by the church's unwillingness to amend some traditional positions, many Catholics have given up on their church. But some still feel tied to the rituals and practices they grew up with, and have responded by forming their own churches that operate outside the bounds of Rome.
"We are church with a small 'c,' " said Mary Anne Nugent, a retired librarian from Suffern N.Y. whose group, Spirit Rising, celebrating its Mass in different locations around Bergen County. "We are past wanting to reform the church, but we love the faith. So the motivation is just to gather together and pray in a way that fits our mind-set."
Spirit Rising grew out of a women's book club focused on spirituality, Nugent said, and does not publicize its meetings. But other organizations, some started by former priests, have become sizable organizations frequented by people who feel alienated by Catholic doctrine, such as gays, lesbians and divorced people. Some of these underground churches, as some experts call them, aired their ideas Saturday at a conference in Whippany called "Imagining New Ways of Being Catholic." It was sponsored by Voice of the Faithful, a reform-minded group that has attracted the ire of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Newark.
James Goodness, a spokesman for the Newark archdiocese, said the church has made overtures to "disaffected groups" but cannot go as far as groups like Voice of the Faithful would like. "We have to stay true to the teaching of the church as we do that," Goodness said. There is no reliable data about how many underground churches exist. Many were formed after the sexual-abuse scandals, but others were started by worshipers unhappy with the church's growing conservatism and those who rebelled against church hierarchy.
"I can't imagine not being a Catholic," said Steven Lord, an executive speaking coach from Flanders who attends St. Elizabeth Seton, a traditional church in Morris County. "But the hierarchy of the church sometimes makes it difficult to authentically follow Jesus." The groups at Saturday's event included The Inclusive Community, a small group in Nutley that includes Protestants and Catholics, and Spiritus Christi of Rochester, N.Y., a church that calls itself Catholic and is led by an excommunicated priest.
"We are a big Catholic church in the middle of the city," the Rev. James Callan told the audience at Birchfield Manor. As for the Roman Catholic Church, he added, "they are closing churches constantly." In 1998, the Roman Catholic Diocese of Rochester removed Callan from the city's Corpus Christi Church after he invited non-Catholics to Communion, blessed same-sex unions, and allowed women a leading role on the altar. He and the Rev. Mary Ramerman, a female priest ordained by an independent bishop in 2001, responded with Spiritus Christi, a church that has 1,500 members and rents space in a Presbyterian Church. Its followers include a group it calls its "lesbian loft."
"We are growing and vibrant and young," Callan said. But there have been setbacks. Spiritus Christi is not as diverse at his former congregation, Callan said. Many Hispanic parishioners did not agree with his embrace of gays and lesbians, he said. Paul Jacobus, a 41-year-old father of two from Morris County, said he did not agree with every idea advanced on Saturday, but was pleased he attended. "I don't see a biblical basis for those beliefs," said Jacobus, who said he attended to support victims of sexual abuse by priests. "But I sit and I listen, because I still want to keep a dialogue open. If I am making a mistake, I want to change."
But I'm smarter and meaner
In a debate I'd beat them
Like Ike beat Tina
Here you go...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1778519/posts
Being a faithful Catholic, don't these stories just make you MAD that for the most part, nothing is being DONE about dissenting "catholics"?
I plan to inundate the Vatican with letters asking that groups like Voice of the Faithful, Catholics for a Free Choice be disciplined for their unorthodox views causing scandal to the Church. I dont know if my letters will be read or not, but at least it's a start.
It is exactly because of large dissenting groups like these going unchecked that smaller splinter groups form - they have no fear of being excommunicated because let's face it, most Bishops just refuse to do so. It is a rare thing indeed to find a courageous Bishop (like the one in Nebraska) who actually DID excommunicate the local chapter of VOTF.
Thanks and God bless.
And here's Mr. Mac's claim:
http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/g/0c725d36-b187-4375-84a1-485cc0c1a419
HH: But I mean, you often cite Catholic doctrine in this book, and yet you support late term abortions, and judges who impose them on people. How…did you miss those classes?
TM: Hugh, I don’t cite Catholic doctrine all through the book. I say I’d gone to Catholic schools, Hughie, through the book, and I am pro-choice, no question about it. But I don’t pretend to be a priest, and I don’t pretend to be citing…I don’t cite the Bible once in the book.
HH: Yeah, but you do cite your Catholic faith.
TM: I say that I’m a Catholic, sure. Irish Catholic.
HH: You know, it says here on Page…
TM: Which I am.
HH: Page 165, “It might not quit with the lessons of my Catholic faith, but I don’t mind admitting that I couldn’t have been happier when the news broke on July 30th, 1999, that Linda Tripp had been indicted by a Maryland grand jury.” So you know it’s wrong to glory in the sufferings of others, because of your Catholic faith, your Catholic teachings.
TM: Yeah, but I say I have faults, like many people have faults. I wish I could follow 100% the teachings of the Catholic Church, but believe it or not, much to your chagrin, I am not Jesus Christ.
HH: No, but I mean, the whole abortion controversy, that’s just…you compartmentalize that and put that aside?
TM: I can, as can many Catholics.
HH: But I know many Catholics do, but do you think it’s right…Do you go to Mass and all that stuff, Terry?
TM: I go…yeah, I do.
HH: You do?
TM: In fact, I’m up to be on the Knights of Malta right now. They’ve just asked me to join the Knights of Malta.
HH: Oh, we’d better put out a word.
TM: Are you one of those?
HH: I’ve got friends in the Knights of Malta, yeah. You might not come back from your first trip to Rome.
There is an old Catholic axiom - the answer to most problems is found in the funeral rite.
Since 9 days after Pentecost stuff like this has been going on. And who remembers the vast majority of folks like them? No Body.
I desire a better class of schismatics and heretics. While I have been Blessed to have been alive during the Pontificates of such great and holy men as Johannes Paulus Magnus and Pope Benedict, the heretics and schismatics have been creeps, kooks, oddballs, nitwits, phonies, idiots and loonies. I feel cheated.
In case you missed it ...
Vatican confirms excommunication for US dissident group (Call to Action)
Lol .... now, how do we make him accept this.
Ahhhhhh.....I knew there was a good news aspect to this story somewhere. I just had to search a little deeper to find it!!
Exactly, Petronski. This shocking misconception (and/or blatant falsehood, as the case may be) is at the heart of the entire flap.
Heh heh heh. See, I'm still laughing at Mr. McAulifflower head.
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