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To: ScubieNuc

I would say that it means: My mother did the will of my Father, which is in heaven. If you do likewise, you will do as she did. You will become to me as my Mother was.

Mary was the prototypical one who showed the way to do the will of the Father in bringing Jesus to the world.

How could He live with her for 30 years and not have a special relationship with her?. Scripture tells us He was obedient to Mary and Joseph--proving again that he was a man like us in all things but sin", willing to be a young son to them and being under their parental guidance.
How can we deny this without denying Scripture?

Of course, all of this has been hashed over so many times on this forum that it can be redundant.


74 posted on 02/03/2007 1:31:43 PM PST by Running On Empty
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To: Running On Empty

--How could He live with her for 30 years and not have a special relationship with her?. Scripture tells us He was obedient to Mary and Joseph--proving again that he was a man like us in all things but sin", willing to be a young son to them and being under their parental guidance.
--How can we deny this without denying Scripture?

But it is not mentioned in Scripture! John, who I must assume lived with Mary until she passed, did not mention it.

Luke, who probably talked with Mary to get the detailed account of the Saviors birth and such didn't mention it.

And again, Paul who wrote the 'Salvation for Dummies' in his many epistles never once mentioned Mary in the light of what the RCC teaches. Never as an intermediary, never as a sinless being, and really only mentions someone named Mary once in Romans 16:6, and is probably not THE Mary in contention.

Galatians 4:4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, (NASB).

When she is mentioned, which is only in passing, she is only A woman. The Catholic claim is so much more. If a miracle was involved, and Paul knew about it, why is it not mentioned? More silence from the Apostles.

What we have here is an addition to the Scripture, which is mentioned in inspired Word as a BIG no-no. Additional traditions are nice, but they better be Scripturally sound or they ain't gonna lead you to where you need to be.


75 posted on 02/03/2007 2:24:17 PM PST by Ottofire (O great God of highest heaven, Glorify Your Name through me)
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To: Running On Empty
You say...I would say that it means: My mother did the will of my Father, which is in heaven. If you do likewise, you will do as she did. You will become to me as my Mother was.

What the Scripture says...

Mat 12:46-50 ¶ While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


Your first breakdown is accurate...Mary did the will of the Father. The rest places Mary as the example to work toward and the directly contradicts verse 50. The emphasis is that whoever does the will of the Father is the SAME as Mary or Jesus's brothers or sisters.

You read that into those verses because you place the doctines of the Catholic Church over the written Word of God. How do you know what the "will of the Father" is?

Psa 143:10 Teach me to do thy will; for thou [art] my God: thy spirit [is] good; lead me into the land of uprightness.

Through the Word of God and through the Spirit of God. How do you get the Spirit of God?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

You get the Spirit through believing and you believe because you heard the word of truth.

What is "the word of truth?"

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

2Tim 4:2-4 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The word of truth is the Gospel or the Scriptures.

So, if what you believe doesn't square with the Bible/the Word of Truth, then it is a fable. Be careful of what you place your faith in, because God will hold you accountable for it.

Rom 2:12,13 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

(For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


In other words, you know what the Word of God says and you do otherwise, you'll be judged with that understanding.

Sincerely
76 posted on 02/03/2007 2:29:05 PM PST by ScubieNuc (I have no tagline.)
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