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To: tiki

--Do you actually think God can glorify His Name through you and not His Mother in the supernatural things that He did for her? It doesn't matter whether you or I believe it or if Zwingli and Calvin and whoever believed it, truth is truth; regardless.

Did I say that God was not glorified in the virgin birth? I give all glory to God for that is where it belongs.

The reformed give no glory to His servants, who are but mirrors that reflect His Grace, and neither deserve or require worship, latria, dulia or otherwise. Sola Dei Gloria not glory to Mary, and certainly no glory TO me. I pray that THROUGH me, may God be glorified.

It does not require the immaculate conception of Mary for her to give birth to the Savior. That happened with Mary having a natural one. And all glory for Christs birth is His alone.


18 posted on 02/01/2007 11:14:30 AM PST by Ottofire (O great God of highest heaven, Glorify Your Name through me)
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To: Ottofire
It does not require the immaculate conception of Mary for her to give birth to the Savior.

There was nothing requiring Jesus to be born of a woman at all. God fashioned Adam out of dust. He could have done the same with His Son. Because something isn't "required", doesn't mean that God didn't will it so anyway. Heck, if you want to really get down to brass tacks, God could have simply willed to redeem the world absent of the cross, but that wasn't His plan, and we're not qualified to question why he chose that path.

21 posted on 02/01/2007 11:29:32 AM PST by Rutles4Ever (Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia, et ubi ecclesia vita eterna)
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To: Ottofire
Did I say that God was not glorified in the virgin birth

No, but from other things you say you don't believe that God was glorified in every breath that Mary drew. She was his creation and one so pure that she bore God's Son, nurtured Him to adulthood, and followed Him in his ministry and after His death and resurrection.

I pray that THROUGH me, may God be glorified.

And I SEE that THROUGH Mary, God was glorified. Mary is not to be worshipped even as I would never worship you, no matter how good of a Christian you might be; but as an example of pure love and obediance to God, Mary certainly deserves my respect.

25 posted on 02/01/2007 1:42:38 PM PST by tiki
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To: Ottofire

Otto, am I correct in assuming that Reformed protestants accept the Augustianisn construction of Original Sin as opposed to the Orthodox one of Ancestral Sin or the Sin of Adam? If indeed they do, isn't the Latin doctrine of the Immaculate Conception a theological necessity?


30 posted on 02/01/2007 4:53:49 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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