Posted on 01/30/2007 3:08:19 PM PST by Quix
It seems fitting in my prayerful heart and spirit this day to offer this thread for our Biblical discussion and dialogue. Let us truly dialogue instead of throw Scripture-daggars at one another. Let us learn from one another TO THE GLORY OF GOD rather than beat one another about the head and shoulders with our biases.
I was going to start this thread with my own pontifications but now believed they would best be left for much later in the thread. I hope all with any sense at all about the topic will share liberally, thoughtfully and prayerfully.
I will express that I have a bias that worship is a key issue and intended BY GOD to be a key, high priority, earnest activity of all believers.
To get us off and running, I offer the following questions to help focus our discussion. I don't pretend that such questions are absolutely complete and comprehensively encompassing. If you have other fitting questions to the topic, please offer them to our congregation on this thread.
WHAT IS WORSHIP?
Please consider, prayerfully ponder how you each might contribute to such a thread from your own Scriptural, personal experiences.
WHAT IS WORSHIP?
How do we know we are involved in worship?
How do others observe us to be authentically involved in worship?
How does God detect that our worship is authentic, with heart passion after Him?
What factors, traits characterize worship?
What behaviors characterize worship?
What priority is worship to have in the life of the beliver?
What are the hazards of worship, if any?
What are the contaminants of worship, if any?
What is/are the purpose/purposes; goal/goals of worship?
What is the Biblical result(s) of worship?
What are the Biblical standards of worship?
What is the Biblical model of worship?
What is the Biblical priority of worship?
Is there an aroma of worship? If so, what is it; is it like?
Is there a spirit, attitude of worship? If so, what is it like?
Is there a false vs authentic worship? If so, how so? Is there a behavioral difference or is the difference deeper?
For me, worship and music go hand in hand.
I love to express to the Lord the feelings of love and wonder I feel for Hm while singing songs He's bestowed upon us.
Those songs are vehicles to raise us up in strength and hope and comfort and reassurance and preservation.
I dearly cherish the praise choruses we used to sing in the past, but I, too, enjoy the new songs He's given the church. And happily, where I belong, we also sing some old fashioned hymns, which are also treasures.
He HAS put a new song in our hearts.
Thanks for writing,
Love,
jm
I have, at Charismatic Renewal services in Tulsa. Because we had such a large percentage of American Indians in NE Oklahoma, our prayer often developed into Indian chant singing, with different, but blending, clapping rhythms, and sometimes two or three different "parts" of chant.
(As a cultural note, much of Indian ritual and dance chant is non-verbal, and has many similarities with my experience of prayer in tongues.)
Anyway, it was marvelous, and I wish I had a prayer group like that now!
Oh, I love that song! I had the choir sing it at my oldest daughter's baptism, many years ago, and I'm going to make sure it's on the program at my funeral.
It looks like you have more verses here than my hymnal - oh goody! And I see from your link that the melody is in the "Southern Harmony," so I can get all four parts.
Thanks - many of my favorites there.
Amen!!
We sing hymns as well. Can't beat 'em. I love worship music because it takes me into the 'heavenlies' so to speak. The words of hymns and choruses have an affect on me, have had since I got saved 37 years ago. I saw hymns in a new light after that. Love ya, Maryxxx
I'm sending you an e-mail I just got about Dancing with God. It's beautiful. Mxxx
Thanks thanks.
Will check it out by and by--likely before bed.
I think you should post it on this thread!
I agree, music and worship go hand in hand.
And over the years, I have attended a variety of churches, and have been deeply touched by many different styles of music.
I enjoy the Gaither reunions on TV where they get a big bunch of people together and just sing and sing and sing songs from days gone by. Very edifying.
Blessings,
jm
Yes, it's a wonderful song.
I enjoy going to www.cyberhymnal.org and getting the words to hymns and other songs.
What a lovely song for a funeral, "I will arise and go to Jesus, He will embrace me in His arms ... ".
And for a baptism too.
Thanks,
jm
Two passages reveal alot regarding worship as well as the relationships between God and man, and particular ministries of different persons of the Godhead. First, the passage referenced by DM, John 4:23 but in its broader context of the woman at the well.
John 4:19-26
(19) The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive(THEOREO, to see, stare at, experience passively) that thou art a prophet. (Note here the perception, some say the perception of our 5 senses is the body form of perception, that reasoning is the mental form of perception, and faith is a spiritual form of perception. In this story, this might be considered an initial call of the Father to the woman who responds by acknowledging the perception.)
(20) Our fathers worshiped(PROSKUNEO, as in prostrating oneself, laying down before somebody or kissing their hand) in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem (Place of Peace, founded peaceful) is the place where men ought to worship.(PROSKUNEO)
(21) Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship(PROSKUNEO) the Father.
(22) Ye worship(PROSKUNEO) ye know(EIDO, know or comprehend associated with the mind in the soul) not what: we know(EIDO) what we worship:(PROSKUNEO) for salvation(SOTERIA) is of the Jews.
(23) But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true(ALETHINOS) worshipers(PROSKUNETES) shall worship(PROSKUNEO) the Father in spirit(PNEUMA, human spirit in fellowship with Holy Spirit) and in truth: for the Father seeketh(ZETEO, of uncertian affinity, seek) such to worship (PROSKUNEO) him.
(24) God is a Spirit(PNEUMA, Holy Spirit): and they that worship(PROSKUNEO) him must worship(PROSKUNEO) him in spirit(PNEUMA, human spirit) and in truth (ALETHINOS).
(25) The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
(26) Jesus saith unto her, I that speak(LELEO, utter words) unto thee am he.
This is a powerfully descriptive passage of the mechanics of worship. It also describes the basics of the Church Age, wherein each and every believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. By remaining in fellowship with Him, (i.e. we've privately confessed any and all post salvation sins to Him through faith in Christ while facing Him, having refocused on God from anything else, via 1stJohn 1:9) the Holy Spirit is able to further effect His enabling ministry in us. By making the Word known supernaturally to our human spirit, then known as a mental comprehension in our mind, then making that mental construct known in our heart as a categorized for of knowledge ready to be outwardly used, then in the working of that outward knowledge which becomes wisdom, we are able to remain in fellowship with Him in spirit (not available to unbelievers), and in truth (must be in fellowship with Him, not a backslidden believer who has not returned to God in his thinking.)
When we look at the anthropology of man being body, soul and spirit, our Father seeks worship in all things and in this age especially in spirit.
In a second passage, Phil 3:3 we read:
Phi 3:3
(3) For we are the circumcision, which worship(LATREUO, to minister unto, serve, render homage) God in the spirit,(PNEUMA) and rejoice(KAUCHAOMAI, make boast, glory, joy, rejoice)) in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence(PEITHO, believe in, rely), in the flesh.(SARX, meat of the animal)
Here a different word is used, translated as worship, which consistently conveys the association of the human spirit, through faith in Christ and further stipulating the negative exclusion of the flesh not from that service, but as not being the object of our faith, which is reserved for our faith in Christ Jesus.
It has been said from many a pulpit, as the congregation is ruffling the pages of their Bibles in search of particular Scripture seeking to know His will, that what the congregation is hearing is the most beautiful music to the ears of God, namely a body of believers searching for the Word of God to flow through their thinking processes, their souls, while in fellowship with the Holy Spirit.
Just on a side note, many people confuse emotion with worship, music with emotion, and associate music induced feelings with worship.
This doesn't imply, though, that worship might not also result in a reflex of the soul as emotion.
The deception may arise by many religions which attempt to counterfeit the worship in truth and in spirit, with the glandular induced emotions of the flesh, assisted with music, independent of faith through Christ.
Interestingly, Emotion, is translated from the Greek in many parts as the word (KOILIA) meaning something that is empty, a void or cavity. Emotion is something waiting to respond. Emotion in and of itself, contains no thought, no ability to reason, no faith as in Bible doctrine. Instead, if emotion controls the thinking process, one isn't applying the doctrine or faith of the Word to life.
Again, this doesn't mean emotion doesn't serve as God has created it in our anthroplogy, but it may be a response to rather than the source of worship.
The same might be said of love. If the love becomes the focus of thought, rather than the consequence of faith in Christ, it may be parlayed into evil by the Adversary.
That's a very good point.
Another note tertaining to John4:20 in the use of Jerusalem
(20) Our fathers worshiped(PROSKUNEO, as in prostrating oneself, laying down before somebody or kissing their hand) in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem (Place of Peace, founded peaceful) is the place where men ought to worship.(PROSKUNEO)
The very name of Jerusalem communicates a little bit of our process of worship by suggesting a peaceful resting in Him. During the Church Age we place our faith in Him, and rest in Him, being assured He has all things in control to accomplish what He finds best in His perfect omniscience and His plan He prepared in eternity past.
Our place of worship is now in our body, the temple of the Holy Spirit, who provides the temple for the indwelling of Christ who is one with the Father.
This doctrine of 'faith-rest' is one tool which is available to us in our daily lives to problem solve while remaining in fellowship with Him in all things. We are assured we are in fellowship by 1stJohn 1:9, then resting in Him through faith in Christ, placing all things in His hands. As we grow and become further sanctified by the Holy Spirit, we will further have Bible doctrine categorized and inculcated in our thinking processes to handle more complex situation in life, by His will.
Adversity in life and adversity in death are inevitable, but stress is optional by faith in Christ.
Submiting to God in all things, remaining in fellowship with Him and thinking through faith in Christ.
How do we know we are involved in worship?
Sometimes we might not be cognizant of our worship, although by remaining in faith through Christ, and remaining in fellowship with Him we are involved in worship. When we seek Him further by study of Bible doctrine, He further sanctifies us in our thinking processes. Different believers have different spiritual gifts, which may mean we have different emotional responses to our worship of Him.
How do others observe us to be authentically involved in worship?
By the fruits of our good works which are manifest by the workings of our heart. These are discernible from even good works of those who are not in fellowship with Him.
How does God detect that our worship is authentic, with heart passion after Him?
Only God knows our heart. Whenever we fall out of fellowship with Him, He knows our separation from His Spirit. We are still His and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
What factors, traits characterize worship?
Knowing his will, which we have available to us by intaking His Word while remaining in fellowship with Him, thereby in a state where the Holy Spirit may make His will known to us. We do His will only when empowered to do His will, again through the power of the Holy SPirit which is available while we remain in fellowship with Him.
What behaviors characterize worship?
Patience, love, grace, perseverence, charity.
What priority is worship to have in the life of the beliver?
We are to worship Him in all things, always pray and never ceasing. We keep short accounts with Him, so that where we might be scarred in our thinking processes by worldly thinking independent of Him, we don;t slip back into worldly thinking or into carnality.
We're big fans of the Gaithers. They come to Binghamton and Syracuse once in a while and give one heckuva show--four hours worth. It's worth the money. We also have a lot of videos that we play when we need a Gaither-fix. We even have three or four CD's in the car, so we, like you, really love them. Mxxx (I also like sacred music. I cut my teeth on that.)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.