Deliver Us From Evil

CNN ^ | 1/08/07 | Amy Berg

[dcnd9]

Deliver Us From Evil Movie Synopsis: AND Movie Trailor: http://mcwindows.arcostream.com/media/arco/lionsgate/streams/windowsmedia/deliver_us_from_evil/dufe_Absolute_V18_Trlr_1B_300.wmv

"Deliver Us From Evil" is the story of Father Oliver O'Grady, the most notorious pedophile in the history of the modern Catholic Church. Completely lacking in moral fiber and devoid of any sense of shame or guilt, O'Grady used his charm and authority to violate dozens of faithful Catholic families across Northern California for more than two decades. His victims ranged from a nine month-old infant to the middle-aged mother of another adolescent victim.

Despite early warning signs and complaints from several parishes, the Church, in an elaborate shell game designed to avoid liability and deflect criticism, lied to parishioners and local law enforcement, while continuing to move O'Grady from parish to parish.

Over the years, O'Grady successfully exploited mothers and fathers in order to get to their children. His penchant for sexual mayhem was as essential to him as breathing, and internal Church documents prove that since 1973, he raped and sodomized with the full knowledge of his Catholic superiors.

Remarkably, "Deliver Us From Evil" filmmaker Amy Berg tracked down Father O'Grady and persuaded him to participate in the making of her film. O'Grady's account of his years in various Northern California parishes is chilling and he tells his story without remorse or self-reflection. Also included in the film is never-before-seen footage of the deposition of Los Angeles Cardinal Roger Mahony and his former second-in-command, Monsignor Cain. She also interviews canon lawyer and medieval historian Fr. Thomas Doyle, former priests, lawyers and the abuse survivors themselves.

Director: Amy Berg Writer(s): Amy Berg Cast: Father Oliver O'Grady Release Date: October 13 2006 Official Site: Not Available Distributor: Lionsgate Genre: Documentary

[adiaireton8]

No problem. It is important for Christians to understand the Donatist heresy, because it has very significant implications for the issue we are discussing. Sacramental authority, received through ordination, is not contingent on how righteously the person is living. The gifts and calling are irrevocable. Tertullian (200 AD) became a [Montanist] heretic later in his life in part because he thought that the Pope was being too soft on repentant sinners. Aaron and Miriam provoked the Lord and received leprosy for presuming that they had no less authority or spiritual gifts than did Moses. (Num 12) Absalom did the same sort of thing with King David. ('If I were king, I would do it better.') Contrast that with David's repeated treatment of Saul; even though Saul was disobeying God, David refused to kill Saul or take the throne by force, because Saul was the rightfully anointed king. In fact, the attitude of Miriam and Aaron and Absalom and Tertullian goes back to the garden, when Eve presumed to know better than God. And it goes back even deeper, to Satan's presumption to be greater than God, and usurp the divine throne (of which the bishop's chair is a type). A bishop or priest does not lose his sacramental authority or power by sinning. That is why the sins of the clergy do not justify schism on the part of the laity.

-A8

[adiaireton8]

You didn't answer my question. Whose interpretation is authoritative?

-A8

[George W. Bush]

Priestly secret superpowers granted by the laying of hands? Are there decoder rings and x-ray specs as well? It’s interesting to see how the oppressive mysticism of the Dark Ages still permeates the RCC.

Well, decoder rings and x-ray specs...um...no, I don't think so.

But there are the bones of saints (is the second knuckle more or less holy than the third knuckle?). And there is always the Holy Prepuce if all else fails. But it has recently disappeared from its Sacred Shoebox. Vatican agents are apparently suspected in the deed. Funny, it used to be that only us Protestant types suspected that (of the remnants of Vaudois writings for instance) and were called crazies for saying so.

More seriously, Rome has actually been drawing away from relics and the associated mysticism (admission there is no Limbo, repudiation of the historicity of Saint Christopher and the inevitable doubts cast on other "saints", rejection of the worldwide petition drive to officially name Mary as Co-Redemptrix). They also seem to being doing a lot less in the way of encouraging contemplative mysticism than are many evangelicals with their Emergent Church movement.

We'd best tread carefully here. We might have to clean our own house a bit before pointing at Rome's.

[Campion]

The Pope-Archbishop-Bishop relationship is not the same as the Doctor-Patient relationship and you know it. Your doctor can't excommunicate you.

Your doctor -- with some exceptions -- is not required by law to take or keep you as a patient, so yes, as a matter of fact, he can "excommunicate" you.

Maybe from the fact that Catholics are REQUIRED to be in submission to the Bishop of Rome?

And that leads to the idea that the Pope has perfect control over every one of his 1-billion strong flock ... how, exactly?

Ever heard of the concepts of "subsidiarity" and "collegiality"?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The Scriptures will solve nothing in this disparate understanding of things because they are replete with verses that point to each of our views.

Ah, sadly spoken like a Romanist.

For me, the Scriptures answer most every important question worth asking to an end that is both satisfying and defensible. I believe God intended it that way.

As for justification and predestination, I read both concepts on nearly every page of Scripture with eyes and ears given to me by God.

Insofar as Mary is concerned. I was named after her. When I was 13 or 14 years old my mother walked into my bedroom when I was getting dressed and looked at my naked form and said to me, 'sei come la madonna.' How I could I not love myself after that? And I did, and I do.

Does the Bible tell us to be like Mary? Here all along I thought we were supposed to become more Christ-like, even us women.

"Vanity, definitely my favorite sin." -- Al Pacino as Satan in "The Devil's Advocate."

[Zionist Conspirator]

As is often said, the Catholic Church is more than the bishops. :-Þ

True, but the bishops are the "successors of the apostles" and are supposed to teach an "unchanging" religion.

There are plenty of Protestant ministers who are highly visible in the conservative movement. So far as I know, all prominent Catholic conservatives are laypeople. The Catholic clergy simply does not do its job. And with Eastern Orthodoxy (which is as ethnic and insular as Judaism), there aren't even any laypeople in conservative leadership.

At any rate, your remark about the Catholic Church being "the only thing standing up to Hollywood" betrays either dishonesty or an abysmal ignorance of American Fundamentalist Protestantism.

[adiaireton8]

So far as I know, all prominent Catholic conservatives are laypeople. The Catholic clergy simply does not do its job

Do a FR search on "Archbishop Burke".

-A8

[Pyro7480]

You forgot my qualifier "often."

Nitpicking! Nitpicking!

[adiaireton8]

For me, the Scriptures answer most every important question worth asking

Here's an important question worth asking: Whose interpretation is authoritative?

-A8

[klossg]

No one can keep up with your logic. This point started with Post 12 of "DePaul U. Blasted for Scheduling Pro-Homosexual Conference"

I'll throw a dart somewhere because I must if this is to go anywhere. As the bible teaches, as does the Catholic Church, abortion is a sin. You implied I support abortion in a different thread of which I had no idea existed until you posted to me. Still, I was trying to get you and HarleyD to see past the 16th Century to the eternal reality of Christ's Church. (on the DePaul thread). You insisted to pull us down a tauntangent. And to top it off you accuse me of diverting the course of your tangent.

Spin away, Reformer, impress me with your ability to finally get to Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

By the way, why did you post my exact biblical quote from Revelation again. By your logic I have to ask, are you pro-abortion?

[Campion]

For me, the Scriptures answer most every important question worth asking to an end that is both satisfying and defensible.

And the Arminians say the same thing, and you and they reject each others' doctrine and quarrel endlessly, when you aren't picking fights with Catholics.

So much for an "end that is both satisfying and defensible".

1 Corinthians 1:10.

[Zionist Conspirator]

You forgot my qualifier "often."

Nitpicking! Nitpicking!

I am not. There is never a time when Fundamentalist Protestants (who are regarded by Hollywood as practically sub-human) are not opposed to Hollywood values. On the other hand (as observed by honest leftwinger Mike Bryan in his book Chapter and Verse Catholicism is respected by liberals for its intellectualism and its refusal to do much of anything to enforce its teachings. I highly recommend this book, btw (which probably means you'll never read it).

Are you completely unaware of the existence of the rural Fundamentalist Protestantism that was "the" American religion for almost two centuries? Where do you live, in the heart of some large city that isn't even contiguous to the continental United States?

[Zionist Conspirator]

Do a FR search on "Archbishop Burke".

I have never heard of Archbishop Burke. OTOH, every American Catholic has heard of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Robison, John Hagee, etc.

My original observation stands.

[Pyro7480]

On the other hand (as observed by honest leftwinger Mike Bryan in his book Chapter and Verse Catholicism is respected by liberals for its intellectualism

And you accuse me of making ridiculous claims? The Catholic Church is a long-time enemy of the Left. It's first external manifestation was the French Revolution's campaign against the Church.

Are you completely unaware of the existence of the rural Fundamentalist Protestantism that was "the" American religion for almost two centuries? Where do you live, in the heart of some large city that isn't even contiguous to the continental United States?

Where is the blazes is this question coming from? My posts do not at all discount the contributions of "Reformist" Christianity to the anti-secularist cause.

[Pyro7480]

OTOH, every American Catholic has heard of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson

Mainly because of the mainstream media's coverage of their controversies. The others aren't as well-known.

[Campion]

On the other hand (as observed by honest leftwinger Mike Bryan in his book Chapter and Verse Catholicism is respected by liberals for its intellectualism and its refusal to do much of anything to enforce its teachings.

not so fast

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Sorry to be repetitive, but it works for me.

I trust the Holy Spirit to speak to me through Scripture. And as evidence of that process, my life is full. I sleep well.

When in doubt, I speak with other believers who give their input of the Scriptures. From this I learn to correctly discern the word of God. It's just not all that difficult. In fact, God has made His will pretty clear in my life, as He does in the lives of all who trust in His word and in the one-time, perfect, accomplished atonement of Jesus Christ.

RCs seek authority through their church, through the vagaries of men in gaudy robes and high hats, as if they could possibly speak for God Himself. This type of delusion is one from which I thank God daily I do not suffer.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

But the end is satisfying and defensible for me. Sorry if that disturbs you.

[adiaireton8]

My question is a *who* question; answering the question involves identifying a person or persons. Saying "it works for me" completely avoids answering the question. So please: Whose interpretation is authoritative?

-A8

[Zionist Conspirator]

And you accuse me of making ridiculous claims? The Catholic Church is a long-time enemy of the Left. It's first external manifestation was the French Revolution's campaign against the Church.

It used to be. The American bishops are probably to the Left of Robespierre in their committment to the idea of religion as "private" and "personal" and subjective rather than being factually true in the same sense as all other facts are.

Where is the blazes is this question coming from? My posts do not at all discount the contributions of "Reformist" Christianity to the anti-secularist cause.

You've led a very insular life, haven't you? "Reformist" chr*stianity leads the anti-secularist cause while the Catholic Church's official spokesmen (who have roughly the same ideological orientation as the "official leaders of the American Jewish community") give communion to abortionist politicians and spend all their time condemning Biblical literalism and gun ownership. Of course, you city-slickers aren't too keen on guns anyway.