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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; annalex; Kolokotronis; kawaii; Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights; HarleyD

"The idea that Satan is a fallen angel is foreign to Pharisaical Judaism."

You have said this many times on this thread. Please explain this exchange between Jesus and a scribe.

Mar 3:22-24, "And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. And he called them [unto him], and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand."


9,962 posted on 02/10/2007 10:05:24 AM PST by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan; Forest Keeper; annalex; Kolokotronis; kawaii; Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights; HarleyD
You have said this many times on this thread. Please explain this exchange between Jesus and a scribe. Mar 3:22-24, "And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils..."

Beelzebul is not described in any part of the [post-Jamnia] Hebrew Old Testament. It suddenly appears in NT demonology. But its roots can be found in various Jewish Solomonic writings, which are mentioned by Josephus, and which were evidently written in Greek.

Thus, in the Testament of Solomon, an Old Testament psuedoepigraphical pieces, Beelzeboul is identified with Babylonbian god Helel who is associated with Light (hence Lucifer), as the prince of demons.

Nowhere in the Hebrew OT used by rabbinical Judaism and Protestants is there any association between the elusive "Beelzebub" in a variety of name forms with Helel. Judaism did not have developed demonology.

Satan is always portrayed as God's servant in the OT, even though he may be too 'eager' to carry out his duties and is, as you mention at one point, rebuked by God, but not punished.

Clearly, the writers of the NT were aware of the pseudoepigraphical demonology among the Jews in the first century. The only link between the OT and the NT where all of a sudden Satan and the devil become one and the same, can be traced to the 'apocrypha.'

10,033 posted on 02/10/2007 5:57:59 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix
"The idea that Satan is a fallen angel is foreign to Pharisaical Judaism.." Ezekiel 28 :

28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

and Isaiah 14

14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning ! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

10,055 posted on 02/10/2007 10:53:51 PM PST by 1000 silverlings
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