There are three problems I see here.
(1) What we see as God's choice, you see as Something we think God HAS to do. If God were to have made Mary some kind of mediatrix, co-mediatrix, deputy under-secretary for mediation, it wouldn't be out of necessity but out of Grace. [And a lemma here seems to be that we think that the "we shall be like Him" of Saint John is more spectacular and mind-boggling in its realization that you seem to think it will be.]
(2)We have a VERY different view of time and Eternity. While we might say God "foresees" something, All times, we think and say when were speaking carefully, are "now" to God. He doesn't look ahead or backwards, we think. [And here the lemma is that the Saints in Heaven will be or are already (It doesn't matter that much what tense you use - as you will see if you think about it) at least to some degree free of the bounds of time.]
(3) We see a continuum, while your vision seems to be more binary. So, you seem to think that if Mary and Anthony can intercede for all the different things that get asked of them, they must be omnipotent. But we envision gradations and degrees. They're not ALL powerful, just MORE powerful, a LOT more powerful.
But even then, it's ALL, every little piece of it, from God. Who knows why he would choose an Italian -- a Paduan -- for crying out loud. But then again, why did He choose Sinai? It's the pagans who would think it would have something to do with Sinai. We think it is grace -- a kind of jeu d'Esprit.
And so, I really must harp on this a little, Of COURSE, not only Jesus but the Holy Trinity is serving us at all times.
The great prayer of Consecration in the Apostolic Constitutions presents everything as done for US! God made light so we could see! Dry land so we would have somewhere to stand! Vegetables and animals so we would have something to eat, and to help us and to delight us!
Jesus says He who would be great among you must be as one who serves. Why do you suppose that is? Because since Creation God has devoted Himself to our service, our salvation,
yes we don't deserve it. Of course we don't. But He is SO eager to shed grace, raining on the just and on the unjust, that he makes it possible for us to hear one another, to speak to one another.
You think it's an outrageous miracle that, as we think, Mary can hear the prayers of the faithful and can intercede. I think you have grown blase' about miracles. I htink it's a miracle that I can strike buttons with my fingers, and electrical signals go through a maze of swithces and finally end up somewhere as signs which, clumped together, give you some notion of what is going on in my alleged mind! That's a frequent occurrence, but no less preposterous than the Mother of My Lord hearing my requests. Frequency ought not to rob you of appreciation of its strange and merciful mystery.
You all say we somehow derogate God. I suggest that maybe you have forgotten how every breath you take, much less every thought you utter, is a wonderful gift, in a universe and lifetime of gifts. You are the bored sophisticates saying,"Yes, yes" He gives us language and itsw effects, so what?" But we are saying, like children,"HE can do ANYTHING! He can make Speech and hearing, HE can glorify the Mother of our Lord! There is no amazing and wonderful thing He cannot do -- and all as a profligate and extravagant display of His Love and generosity! So let us rejoice, with parades and processions, with parties and worship and festivals in the streets."
MD,
Not all YELLING on this thread is in CAPS and colors.
To some of us . . . there are a LOT of extremely outrageous things that beg for SCREAMING AND RENDING clothes.
Sorry. That's just the reality of the widely divergeant perspectives, constructions on reality.
Besides, it's only text. It IS ONLY text. Symbols on a screen.
One can ascribe whatever volume or none--one's self--regarding what's on one's own screen. And one can ascribe whatever response to same--that one wishes--they are only--in and of themselves, rather neutral symbols on a screen.
One can decide that large colorful letters are the poster's thrill of large colorful letters. One can decide that large colorful letters are the poster's addiction to large colorful letters. One can decide that large colorful letters are the poster's experiment with large colorful letters. One can decide that large colorful letters are yelling and be thankful they don't shatter glass from the computer's speakers.
There are all kinds of options possible in construing the reality of large colorful letters and in responding to them.
I understand that you have selected the option you have. You have much company.
Personally, I see no reason to take offense when none is intended.
If I'm yelling, it's at ideas, structures, traditions, etc. not individuals and individuals' hearts and spirits.
I wasn't yelling, though at time on this thread I have yelled as have you. So, we all know how to use our typographical lungs. Back to the subject at hand.
You know from prior conversations that our objection to Marian dogma is not that God did this or that with her but that Catholics have labeled her with the attributes that Scripture gives to God and many are eager to label her with more. We object to prayers to the saints in Heaven because Scripture forbids trying to contact the dead. (And yes, in the earthly sense, they are dead else the Old Testament command was nonsense).
Having studied the apparitions of Mary, I am also very disturbed with Marian adoration and the extent that MILLIONS of souls go through in their "venerating" activities.
Though my examples were deliberately pushing the line a bit, I was trying to get at how you all believe Mary hears ALL of those prayers if she indeed isn't omnipresent and omniscient. So far, I have received "She's with Jesus and he's those things..." and basically a "She can do it all by a miracle and you're blase about miracles if you doubt she can."
No, Mad Dawg. I am not blase about miracles. I believe true miracles happen every day. Life itself is a miracle. Healings are miracles. Miracles happen.
What I am doing is testing the spirits here. And what I see does not compute with Scripture.
The Bible says :1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
Why would I want or need another mediator in prayer?
Easton's Bible Dictionary has this to say about Mediator:
one who intervenes between two persons who are at variance, with a view to reconcile them. This word is not found in the Old Testament; but the idea it expresses is found in Job 9:33, in the word "daysman" (q.v.), marg., "umpire." This word is used in the New Testament to denote simply an internuncius, an ambassador, one who acts as a medium of communication between two contracting parties. In this sense Moses is called a mediator in Gal. 3:19. Christ is the one and only mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24). He makes reconciliation between God and man by his all-perfect atoning sacrifice. Such a mediator must be at once divine and human, divine, that his obedience and his sufferings might possess infinite worth, and that he might possess infinite wisdom and knowlege and power to direct all things in the kingdoms of providence and grace which are committed to his hands (Matt. 28:18; John 5:22, 25, 26, 27); and human, that in his work he might represent man, and be capable of rendering obedience to the law and satisfying the claims of justice (Heb. 2:17, 18; 4:15, 16), and that in his glorified humanity he might be the head of a glorified Church (Rom. 8:29). This office involves the three functions of prophet, priest, and king, all of which are discharged by Christ both in his estate of humiliation and exaltation. These functions are so inherent in the one office that the quality appertaining to each gives character to every mediatorial act. They are never separated in the exercise of the office of mediator.
Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary
Mary does not fit the role nor is she given the title in Scripture.
So, does she intercede for us? Well, Scripture speaks of intercession:
Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Romans 8:27
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Romans 8:34
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Hebrews 7:19For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
20And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
22By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
So most of the instances of Intercession speak of Jesus or the Holy Spirit.
I could only find one instance where it refers to us in the NT (there could be more, but this is the one I found):
1 Timothy 2:1
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men
And once is enough. We should intercede on behalf of our fellow saints on earth. That is pleasing to God.
But, he never tells us to pray to the dead - ever. Rather, we have a direct line to God's throneroom and Christ Jesus Himself and the Sweet Holy Spirit intercede and mediate for us.
Futhermore, Christ is our advocate. He alone can point to the scars in his hands and say "penalty paid."
Mary was a wonderful woman. She bore our Savior. We love her. She was blessed among women. But that's it.
God indeed CAN do anything He wishes. I'm a Calvinist, remember. I believe He would have been well within His rights to send us all to Hell. He can do whatever He wants that is consistent with His nature (he can not lie). So, if He had chosen to use a human being in the capacity you speak of, as long as it was consistent with his nature He could have done it.
The testimony of Scripture is, however, that we have a direct connection to the Lord. We can approach him directly without fear. He is our Daddy. Our Abba Father. Rom 8:15 ;Gal 4:6 We do not need to pray to saints to pray to Jesus for us to get God's attention. We already have it. And HE is our intercessor, mediator, advocate, guide, Lord, God, friend. Hbr 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
Hbr 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.