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First of all, the imagery that you used, Mad Dawg, was deliberately inflamatory as if God would rape Mary. No such suggestion was made. Rather, the issue is the Sovereignty of God. As Paul said in Romans 9, hath not the Potter power over the clay to make of it what he will (paraphrased)? God doesn't ask permission.

I wasn't trying to be inflammatory. But if somebody got impregnated against her will, ravishing and seduction and the overpowering of will come to mind, at least to my mind.

God doesn't ask permission.

Behold I stand at the door and knock; if anyone opens I will come in and sup with him and he with me." (Revelations 3:20)

In any event, it is a dream of mine to be able to say, "Be it unto me according to they word," so Mary will always be a heroine of mine. It was the notion that assenting to God meant she had a part in bringing Love into the world that first led me to admire her, and to seek, in that way, to imitate her -- as she imitates Christ.

AS for the rest, I don't know what to say. My parish is a university Parish. This is a church recovering nicely, and under excellent leadership, from the excesses and chaos of the post Vatican II period. Yes we do have an "idol", and I have seen some people kneeling in its vicinity. But from the conversation I have with these folks, I can't imagine their worshipping her whom the image represents.

(And of course, what with my being former Episcopalian, the worst thing to me is that it's in dreadful taste! But at least most of the textiles are good.)

When we hit the wall, the thing to do is pray. That's what I think. God loves us and has already turned everything upside down to get to us and set us free. He can get us through this.

I wasn't trying to be inflammatory. But if somebody got impregnated against her will, ravishing and seduction and the overpowering of will come to mind, at least to my mind.
It didn't come to my mind. He didn't have sexual relations with her during the incarnation period and seduction didn't have anything to do with it. It was a bad and inflammatory picture.

God doesn't ask permission.
Behold I stand at the door and knock; if anyone opens I will come in and sup with him and he with me." (Revelations 3:20)
There is a question in there? There is an asking of permission. No. There is a statement. Just like Whosoever will may come. But who will? Nobody, unless God draws them. Next.

In any event, it is a dream of mine to be able to say, "Be it unto me according to they word," so Mary will always be a heroine of mine. It was the notion that assenting to God meant she had a part in bringing Love into the world that first led me to admire her, and to seek, in that way, to imitate her -- as she imitates Christ.
This part I don't have as much of a problem with. There are role models for everyone. Mary is certainly someone who was faithful and blessed of God. I admire her. I don't expect her to do things for me though. Scripture NOWHERE says to pray to her or to do anything with her. But, I would agree that there are aspects of Mary that every Christian should admire.

AS for the rest, I don't know what to say. My parish is a university Parish. This is a church recovering nicely, and under excellent leadership, from the excesses and chaos of the post Vatican II period. Yes we do have an "idol", and I have seen some people kneeling in its vicinity. But from the conversation I have with these folks, I can't imagine their worshipping her whom the image represents.

(And of course, what with my being former Episcopalian, the worst thing to me is that it's in dreadful taste! But at least most of the textiles are good.)

When we hit the wall, the thing to do is pray. That's what I think. God loves us and has already turned everything upside down to get to us and set us free. He can get us through this.

The only thing I would urge people to do, all people, is look to God alone. Jesus is worthy of all of our praise, adoration, and worship. Everyone, and I mean everyone, pales in comparison.

Now, lest you think I only pick on Catholics and Orthodox, I will turn to my own Baptists. In some Baptist churches, I find doctrinal soundness without love. In some I find loads of love but nothing but milk if that for doctrine. For both, the worship is of SELF. In the ones without love, they believe that as God's chosen that there is something which makes them a cut above all the others. They are guilty of the sin of self-idolatry which is rooted in pride. In the others, they are guilty of the sin of the Old Testament where every man did what was right in their own eyes. Most of the time, the ones with love but no doctrine have ceded doctrine in the name of a user-friendly, seeker sensitive existence. That one isn't right either. Everywhere there should be a balance. You can have strong doctrine AND strong love. Unfortunately, it is lacking in so many places.

See Mad Dawg, again, the only reason we react so strongly to the overemphasis on Mary (which in many cases has become idolatry) is that it takes away from focus and devotion towards Jesus. I know you say it doesnt and Mary leads others to Jesus. But my little "Catholic Store" excursion should give one pause. The Mary of Scripture, just like the Holy Spirit, would not have wished to receive glory for herself. Calling her blessed? Absolutely! Thinking she's other than a normal woman and sinner, no. She was a humble servant of God. And as far as she followed God, she is worth admiring. But no more than that. Just focus on the Lord. He will draw all who do nearer than any intermediary could hope to.