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To: stfassisi; Mad Dawg
You have No idea what the Church teaches!

I'm often told that. In my defense I would say that half the Catholics here don't understand what the Church teaches. Also, I have yet to find a succinct Catholic-for-Dummies Guide published by the Vatican so don't blame me.

Perhaps you would care to tell me the Catholic position of allowing priests in certain duties who admit to homosexual tendencies? It seems to me that if this wasn't an issue, then they should allow them to serve wherever they like. If it is an issue then why are they catering to it? More to the point, based upon what you posted, would you state that homosexuality is a sin without an act?

The Catholic Church doesn't single out heterosexual priests simply because they may have impure thoughts about women, do they?

I believe this conversation all started when it was suggested that Protestants cater to the gays while Catholics do not. You will find that most Protestants still look at homosexuality as a sin, not as a human condition brought on by the environment as the Catholic Church.

7,035 posted on 01/19/2007 11:18:52 PM PST by HarleyD ("...even the one whom He will choose, He will bring near Himself." Num 16:5)
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To: HarleyD
I have yet to find a succinct Catholic-for-Dummies Guide..

We call it RCIA.

7,042 posted on 01/20/2007 12:46:10 AM PST by D-fendr
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To: HarleyD
The Catholic Church doesn't single out heterosexual priests simply because they may have impure thoughts about women, do they?

No, either would be immoral. Priests are to be chaste and celebate.

Protestants still look at homosexuality as a sin

You guys must have some really good gaydar.

7,044 posted on 01/20/2007 1:01:42 AM PST by D-fendr
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To: HarleyD
I think you might also be interested in this.
7,045 posted on 01/20/2007 1:09:13 AM PST by D-fendr
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To: HarleyD
Harley, you wrote...
"I'm often told that. In my defense I would say that half the Catholics here don't understand what the Church teaches. Also, I have yet to find a succinct Catholic-for-Dummies Guide published by the Vatican so don't blame me."

Is this how you justify your actions by writing such as heresies like the Church teaches sin has to be acted on in order to be a sin?

There is such a thing called the "Catechism of the Catholic Church",so there are NO excuses for any Catholic not to know what the Church teaches

If you need to know what the Church teaches here it is...
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

Now you have NO reason to post any more heresies on what the Church teaches,Dear Brother.


You also wrote....
""Perhaps you would care to tell me the Catholic position of allowing priests in certain duties who admit to homosexual tendencies? It seems to me that if this wasn't an issue, then they should allow them to serve wherever they like. If it is an issue then why are they catering to it? More to the point, based upon what you posted, would you state that homosexuality is a sin without an act?"


Of course homosexuality is a sin ,and so is every sinful and impure thought a sin because we offend God weather it,s intentenional or not.

The solution to all of this is Confession and Confession with as CONTRITE heart.
If we are truly sorry for our sins ,God will provide us with the Grace to overcome them,but ONLY,ONLY,ONLY if we have a CONTRITE heart.
Trust me, He really will provide the Grace to overcome sin.

I wish you a Blessed day!
7,051 posted on 01/20/2007 6:42:53 AM PST by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: HarleyD
In my defense I would say that half the Catholics here don't understand what the Church teaches.

LOL! Well-parried, and too true!

I have enough on my plate to figure out the dogma. Policy is too much for me.

The phrase that sticks in my head is "disorder". There is a fine little article in the latest First Things about a young man who has homosexual tendencies but is working with prayer and the help of the rarest (these days) of therapists, namely one who will agree the homosexual urges are disordered. And the main point that stuck with me is that the young man refuses to let his urges define him or to get caught up in the "gay pride" and "gay identity" culture.

Every Catholic-For Dummies that I've found is inadequate one way or another. I think that's inevitable. Not every Catholic has the capacity, inclination, or vocation to be a theologian. For them to resolve to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified is a good course.

But if you're going to ascend the intellectual heights, you've got to expect intellectual distinctions, nuances, and all. And that will mean, at the least, reading ALL the paragraphs.

So, let's play:
- Passions are not culpable.
- Passions can be "disordered". A passion to eat filth would be disordered because what hunger is about it nutrition. A passion to eat 25 lbs of chocolate would be disordered for the same reason.
- Disordered passions can have many causes, some of them culpable.
- So, you may think your neighbor's wife is a hottie. No blame, (but there are some interesting conclusions to be drawn about the weakness of fallen humans and the disordered relationship between reason and passion and all like that.
- If you entertain fantasies of making it with your neighbor's wife, now you've sinned. There was a choice, there was an act, there is culpability.
To sum up, with the neighbor's wife, the passion is morally neutral, the fantasies, which are actions though internal ones, are culpable. With, however the neighbors husband (assuming you are of the guy persuasion) the passion is not culpable, but it is disordered. Any subsequent fantasies are culpable. SO, I can IMAGINE (while I busily thank God for not making me a bishop) a situation where someone with homosexual passions could be trusted in some pastoral situations, if the person was otherwise of average sanity and all. I never met anybody who wasn't a little out of kilter. BUT If I came to that guy's house and saw a stack of, ah, muscle magazines, that would suggest to me that he was deliberately entertaining fantasies, thereby weakening his resolve and harming his temperance and self-control, I'd remove him from any pastoral responsibility. Does that make sense?

As to your last paragraph, there's a "fallacy of misplaced concreteness" in the term "Protestant". There are a bunch of different ecclesial assemblies which are not in communion with Rome and don't want to be. Sometimes it seems that's the only characteristic shared by all these assemblies. A few of those assemblies, e.g.: Metropolitan Church and now the Episcopal Church, consider homosexual activity no bar to pastoral responsibility or to ordination. I'd bet that a vast majority are ag'in it.

There. I did my best.

7,055 posted on 01/20/2007 7:28:13 AM PST by Mad Dawg ("It's our humility which makes us great." -- Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers)
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