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To: Mad Dawg

We do not believe that Christ continues to be sacrificed in one long everlasting sacrifice. We believe when it was finished, it was finished. No more need for a sacrifice for it was done. We partake of that sacrifice not through wafer and wine but through belief in what it was that He did. He died that we might live. He shed His blood to pay our debt. When we place our faith in Him alone for our salvation, we have received the full import of what Christ did on Calvary.

In the old Testament, men offered the blood of animals to atone for sin, but they could not take it away. Jesus Christ was the perfect sacrifice and His blood washes away ALL of our sin (which was ALL future from the point of Calvary). Then, He sat down for it was truly finished.

One consumes his flesh and drinks his blood not in physical objects but through the union of one's will with His in belief. Christ's words in Matthew were obviously symbolic for when he said them the sacrifice was not yet completed. He pointed to his future sacrifice on the cross as a way of saying those who find their sustenance in ME, will live forever. In the Lord's supper, we are drawn close to Christ not through some mystical change of the elements but through the mere reflection of the enormously significant thing that Christ did for us. Man may forever be thankful for one who saves his life. Jesus Christ saved our lives and souls and became our very life. He is our all. He is everything. That is what Lord's Supper should be about. It should be a solemn rememberance of what He did and who He is. (unfortunately, too often I have witnessed it being just the opposite. However, wherever I have influence on how it is treated [I am a church musician and our church insists on music during this time], I make sure that I try to draw minds in to focus on what it is all about, and what He did for us.)

Here are some examples of songs I will play at this time:

When I survey the wondrous cross
On which the Prince of glory died,
My richest gain I count but loss,
And pour contempt on all my pride.

Forbid it, Lord, that I should boast,
Save in the death of Christ my God!
All the vain things that charm me most,
I sacrifice them to His blood.

See from His head, His hands, His feet,
Sorrow and love flow mingled down!
Did e’er such love and sorrow meet,
Or thorns compose so rich a crown?

His dying crimson, like a robe,
Spreads o’er His body on the tree;
Then I am dead to all the globe,
And all the globe is dead to me.

Were the whole realm of nature mine,
That were a present far too small;
Love so amazing, so divine,
Demands my soul, my life, my all.




And can it be that I should gain
an interest in the Savior's blood!
Died he for me? who caused his pain!
For me? who him to death pursued?
Amazing love! How can it be
that thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
Amazing love! How can it be
that thou, my God, shouldst die for me?

2.
'Tis mystery all: th' Immortal dies!
Who can explore his strange design?
In vain the firstborn seraph tries
to sound the depths of love divine.
'Tis mercy all! Let earth adore;
let angel minds inquire no more.
'Tis mercy all! Let earth adore;
let angel minds inquire no more.

3.
He left his Father's throne above
(so free, so infinite his grace!),
emptied himself of all but love,
and bled for Adam's helpless race.
'Tis mercy all, immense and free,
for O my God, it found out me!
'Tis mercy all, immense and free,
for O my God, it found out me!

4.
Long my imprisoned sprit lay,
fast bound in sin and nature's night;
thine eye diffused a quickening ray;
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
my chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed thee.
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed thee.

5.
No condemnation now I dread;
Jesus, and all in him, is mine;
alive in him, my living Head,
and clothed in righteousness divine,
bold I approach th' eternal throne,
and claim the crown, through Christ my own.
Bold I approach th' eternal throne,
and claim the crown, through Christ my own.

-------


5,810 posted on 01/13/2007 8:55:25 PM PST by Blogger
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To: xzins; P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights; blue-duncan; Quix; Alamo-Girl
With all of the talk on the Atonement, I ran into a specific quote from a book I read in my Seminary days. I think sometimes we Protestants, because we are so fully aware of our freedom in Christ tend to be a little more cavalier when it comes to our approach to God. We may approach Him boldly, with nobody but Christ as a Mediator. We stand fully justified before Him because of Christ. We are sanctified because of Christ. But, we kinda get the idea that because it is all taken care of that our sin doesn't really matter any more (at least I see it practiced that way, and confess I have been too cavalier about it at times myself).

Thought this would be edifying for the Protestant grouping. Probably a few of the Orthodox and Catholics as well.

"...The kind of God who appeals to most people today would be easygoing in his tolerance of our offences. He would be gentle, kind, accomodating, and would have no violent reactions. Unhappily, even in the church we seem to have lost the vision of the majesty of God. There is much shallowness and levity among us. Prophets and psalmists would probably say of us that 'there is no fear of God before their eyes.' In public worship our habit is to slouch or squat; we do not kneel nowadays, let alone prostrate ourselves in humility before God. It is more characteritisc of us to clap our hands with joy than to blush with shame or tears. We saunter up to God to claim His patronage and friendship ; it does not occur to us that he might send us away. We need to hear again the apostle Peter's sobering words: 'Since you call on a Father who judges each man's work impartially, live your lives...in reverent fear." In other words, if we dare to call our Judge our Father, we must beware of presuming on him. It must even be said that our evangelical emphasis on the atonement is dangerous if we come to it too quickly. We learn to appreciate the access to God with Christ has won for us only after we have first seen God's inaccessibility to sinners. We can cry 'Hallelujah' with authenticity only after we have first cried 'Woe is me, for I am lost.' In Dales words, " it is partly because sin does not provoke our own wrath that we do not believe that sin provokes the wrath of God." ...

All inadequate doctrines of the atonement are due to inadequate doctrines of God and man. If we bring God down to our level and raise ourselves to his, then of course we see no need for a radical salvation, let alone for a radical atonement to secure it. When on the other hand, we have glimpsed the blinding glory of the holiness of God, and have been so convicted by our sin by the Holy Spirit that we tremble before God and acknowledge what we are, namely 'hell-deserving sinners', then and only then does the necessity of the cross appear so obvious that we are astonished we never saw it before." (John R.W. Stott, the Cross of Christ)

5,819 posted on 01/13/2007 9:17:19 PM PST by Blogger
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To: Blogger
Wow, I knew the first hymn, but not the second. It's very fine. I used to ask my organist to play "Just as I am" for a communion hymn.

Distinguo: "Eternal" is not synonymous with "everlasting". "Eternal" is NOW, "Everlasting" is "which wert and art and evermore shall be, or as we say saecula saeculorum "unto ages of ages." or L'Olam. So "one long everlasting" is not how I would describe it either. From a temproal POV it was "then" and in the Mass, that then becomes "now", as I said, thorugh the 'calculus of eternity' (my phrase, so far as I know, don't blame it on the Church).

One consumes his flesh and drinks his blood not in physical objects but through the union of one's will with His in belief.And the union of Will is God's gracious gift, right?

The language of some Reformers is interesting. There are some who will say there is no "real presence" in the bread and wine, but rather in the believer who partakes.

And then out there at the polar opposite end of the spectrum from us'ns is the memorial which is undertaken, in obedience -- and in hope of a blessing?

5,860 posted on 01/14/2007 3:55:02 AM PST by Mad Dawg ('Shut up,' he explained.)
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To: Blogger; Mad Dawg

Great hymns. Quite Orthodox actually. I am surprised that having sung and clearly believed what the hymns say, you still don't understand what we are saying about what the Incarnation (which includes the Sacrifice on The Cross) wrought. Is it some confusion about who owed what debt to whom?


5,867 posted on 01/14/2007 5:49:19 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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