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To: kosta50; HarleyD; wmfights; Blogger; Gamecock; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; P-Marlowe; xzins; ...
Could you find some other Apostle who calls it a sacrifice? Did Jesus ever say he was sacrificing Himself because the Father demanded it?

Wow. You're just being nice to me now with this softball, right.

Will this guy convince you?

"I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." -- John 10:-18


5,745 posted on 01/13/2007 5:24:07 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; Kolokotronis; wmfights; Blogger; Gamecock; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; ...
Will this guy convince you?...

Dr. E, I had a feeling you'd reply in this manner. Must I remind you that the issue was whether God demanded a sacrifice, not whether He sacrificed (did a wholy thing) Himself for us, out of love, a gift indeed, not ab obligation.

The Church never believd God demanded sacrifice. The Church always believed God willingly did it. Not because He was obliged, but because He so desired.

Suggesting that God demanded sacrifice is contrary to God's mercy, a blasphemy, as I said. It is a distorted idea of God's justice, based on human concept of justice that requires retribution for wounded pride. It is western Christianity at its worst.

5,754 posted on 01/13/2007 6:09:59 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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