Replies

Baptism and Eucharist in particular are necessary for salvation, 'cause the Bible tells me so.

Jesus is necessary for salvation; He is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Abraham, Moses, David, the thief on the cross, etc. didn't have baptism, the Eucharist or, as far as I can see, an organization of men claiming dispositive authority over their souls.

The aborted babies have neither baptism nor Eucharist - neither do some who are mentally or physically handicapped and others who have died without hearing the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. – Romans 2:12-16

AMEN!

God is looking for Biblical "excuses" to save people, not Biblical excuses to damn them.

That's HIS NATURE.

Once knew a prophet type who insisted on the Salvation aspect of Baptism. Wouldn't talk much with folks who believed otherwise as he felt they were not worth his time. That God insisted he use his time better than that. Considered himself God's #1 general for the end times.

I once asked him what he thought of someone dying in a car accident on the way to baptism. He was insistent that God would NOT ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN. But I knew of a case that happened exactly like that.

We can sure get narrow and rigid on petty things, imho. And forget all about God's Nature and majoring in major things.

I don't doubt that something spiritual and important happens in Baptism. It is certainly important from an obedience standpoint as well. But God's NATURE is to find a Biblical reason to grab folks from satan's clutches . . . not an excuse to shove them into hell.

The aborted babies have neither baptism nor Eucharist - neither do some who are mentally or physically handicapped and others who have died without hearing the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Eucharist they don't need, as they are not capable of sinning. As a Catholic I take the Holy Scripture literally, and literally it teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation. There is an extrascriptural speculation that the innocent babies slaughtered in the Holocaust of abortion are saved by the extraordinary mercy of Christ, together with the Holy Innocents. There is another that they receive baptism of blood similar to the Good Thief. At any rate, they do not experience any pain of Hell due tot their innocence. St, Augistine taught that they are in a region of hell where they have all possible natural happiness, but deprived of the supernatural happiness of heaven. This is, best that I know, the range of Catholic thought on the subject. Also see Limbo .