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To: annalex; Forest Keeper

"The Protestant belief stemming fron this one is wrong: the notion that "saved" is a one time event in the life of man. It is not: one has been saved by the sacrifice of Christ, continues to be saved by working on his faith through his life time, and hopefully but not surely will end up saved at the end of his life in the Particular Judgement."

Sort of an interesting way to put it, A. From an Orthodox perspective, "saved", I suppose, means "theosis", which is a state of union with the uncreated energies of God. Christ's death and resurrection destroyed the power which death formerly held over all of us; in effect, restoring to us the potential to attain, only through God's grace, the "Likness of God" we were originally created for. But being descendant's of Adam and having a nature corrupted by Ancestral Sin, there 's no guarantee that we will ever rise above that corrupt nature, but we now can (but may not) respond to God's grace in a way which will transform us ultimately to both the image and likeness of God. The way we live our lives should be moving towards that similitude with Christ. You know, sometimes that old Protestant saw, "What would Jesus do?" is really right on the money. +Anthony the Great, maybe the greatest of the Desert Fathers wrote:

"Leading the repentant man to undertake spiritual work, the Holy Spirit, Who called him to repentance, also grants him His comforts and teaches him not to turn back nor be attached to anything of this world. To this end, He opens the eyes of the soul and gives her to see the beauty of the purity reached through the works of repentance. In this way He kindles in it zeal for complete purification both of itself and of the body, that the two may be one in purity. For this is the aim of the teaching and guidance of the Holy Spirit - to purify them completely and bring them back to their original state, in which they were before the Fall, by destroying in them all adulterations introduced by the devil's envy, so that nothing of the enemy should remain therein. Then the body will become obedient to the dictates of the mind in all things, and the mind will masterfully determine its food and drink, its sleep and its every other action, constantly learning from the Holy Spirit to "keep under" the "body, and bring it into subjection" (I Corinthians 9:27) as did Apostle Paul."

+Symeon the New Theologian puts it this way:

"'Can a man take fire into his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?' (Prov. 6:27) says the wise Solomon. And I say: can he, who has in his heart the Divine fire of the Holy Spirit burning naked, not be set on fire, not shine and glitter and not take on the radiance of the Deity in the degree of his purification and penetration by fire? For penetration by fire follows upon purification of the heart, and again purification of the heart follows upon penetration by fire, that is, inasmuch as the heart is purified, so it receives Divine grace, and again inasmuch as it receives grace, so it is purified. When this is completed (that is, purification of heart and acquisition of grace have attained their fullness and perfection), through grace a man becomes wholly a god."

Its a process of purification wrought by the Holy Spirit. But it is a process which can be stopped by the exercise of man's free will contrary to God's Commandments. You've all seen the icon of the Ladder of Divine Ascent with its monks and hierarchs falling off into the Pit. If the Holy Spirit leaves, well, that's trouble. +Nil Sorsky taught:

"The Holy Spirit often visits us; but if He does not find rest how can He remain? He departs. Joy is in the hearts of those who are cleansed and who are able to maintain within themselves the grace of the Holy Spirit of the All-holy Trinity. There is no greater joy and happiness for man. I am not able to describe to you how one feels then."


5,183 posted on 01/11/2007 3:01:01 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; Forest Keeper
interesting way to put it

I used "saved" in the three tenses and senses the Scripture uses it. Indeed, "being saved" can be called theosis, even though Catholics commonly call it holiness.

5,231 posted on 01/11/2007 4:48:58 PM PST by annalex
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To: Kolokotronis; annalex
You know, sometimes that old Protestant saw, "What would Jesus do?" is really right on the money.

Yes it is, sometimes. :) I actually have a personal twist on the saying. Most of the time it is perfectly good, but then it occurred to me that Jesus never would have made the same decisions that other righteous people have, because we all have different purposes within God's plan. So, my turn on it is to say "what would Jesus have ME do?" The prime example is David. He did as God wished, and that made him unfit to build the Temple.

+Nil Sorsky taught: "The Holy Spirit often visits us; but if He does not find rest how can He remain? He departs. Joy is in the hearts of those who are cleansed and who are able to maintain within themselves the grace of the Holy Spirit of the All-holy Trinity. ..."

After baptism, is the normal residence of the Spirit indwelling, or does the Spirit just visit when we do good things? I had understood the Apostolic view to be that the Spirit stays until booted out because of sin. Then upon confession, the Spirit returns until the next sin. I was confused by "often visits us".

6,802 posted on 01/18/2007 7:33:43 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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