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To: Forest Keeper; adiaireton8; Kolokotronis
You are not a Nestorian, FK! Not at all! If a fertilized egg is inplanted into a woman's womb and it matures to term and she gives birth to a healthy baby, then she is the bearer, birth-giver (tokos in Greek) to that baby even if she did not "create" that baby.

In a surrogate mother pregnanacy, a fertilized egg is implanted into a woman and she gives birth to that existing life. In the Case of Christ, the Child was not a fertilized egg, but God the Word who humbled Himself and took on our inferior nature (became incarnate, i.e. "of flesh," i.e. mysteriously and miraculously "became" man) and fashioned Himself into an embryo that was planted in Mary's womb and carried to term and broth forth (borne) by the one who carried Him and nourished Him and of whom He was delivered. Not some "new being" created in the womb, but the ever-existing Logos, in the form of man by His will and His work, one and the same eternal God who was before Mary, and before all ages.

In order words, she delieverd the same 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity that pre-existed her; she did not give "life" to or "create" new life, new Person. The "holy thing" she gave birth to was in every way God the Word, (Logos) Who made Himself visible, cirmcuscribed, finite, material, mortal, and every bit human by and of her flesh in a manner that is incomprehensible, inexplicable, mysterious and micraculous.

Not a different Person. The same Person, but with added human nature. So, she is every way truly the bearer of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, the most-blessed and Ever Virgin, Theotokos, who provided the flesh of His humanity, and therefore the true Mother of our God, Jesus Chirst. It was through Her, and through the choice of the Almighty God that she give birth to our Savior, God, Lord, eternal Logos inacrnate of her flesh, divine and human in nature, of divine and human will, but one and the same divine Person that pre-existed all eons.

2,791 posted on 12/22/2006 6:03:57 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; adiaireton8

broth forth = brought forth (danr those spell checkers!)


2,793 posted on 12/22/2006 6:06:33 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; adiaireton8; Kolokotronis; P-Marlowe; Blogger; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights
In a surrogate mother pregnancy, a fertilized egg is implanted into a woman and she gives birth to that existing life. In the Case of Christ, the Child was not a fertilized egg, but God the Word who humbled Himself and took on our inferior nature (became incarnate, i.e. "of flesh," i.e. mysteriously and miraculously "became" man) and fashioned Himself into an embryo that was planted in Mary's womb and carried to term and brought forth (borne) by the one who carried Him and nourished Him and of whom He was delivered ...

Forgive me for just asking you about this. I hadn't caught up to this post yet. :) OK, if you haven't already answered elsewhere, and if Mary was only a surrogate, then what is Christ's "blood-claim" to being the Messiah and the Son of David?

The "holy thing" she gave birth to was in every way God the Word, (Logos) Who made Himself visible, circumscribed, finite, material, mortal, and every bit human by and of her flesh in a manner that is incomprehensible, inexplicable, mysterious and miraculous.

How could Jesus have been "by and of" her flesh if there was no "Mary" in Him? :)

One thing I find very amusing about this is that it could be said that I and those of like minds are making Mary "more important" in the scenario of what actually happened. That's quite a role reversal! :)

This is a fascinating discussion for me because it never occurred to me that there was any controversy about this. (All I mean is that I didn't know about it.)

3,037 posted on 12/28/2006 3:31:47 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; P-Marlowe; Kolokotronis; xzins

Kosta,
Careful there in your efforts to explain what is unexplainable. What you are speaking of borders on Monophysitism.

Reality is that Jesus was 100% God(eternally pre-existent) and 100% Human with Mary's blood running through His veins.

Otherwise, He fulfilled no prophecies of the Messiah and was a liar (a thought which is ludicrous).

Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

God came down and so interacted with Mary's egg that Jesus was conceived. Jesus had both Mary's human blood in Him, making Him fully human; and His own eternally pre-existent divinity as His very being.

How such a thing occurs is a mystery to us. But, nothing is Impossible for God.


3,042 posted on 12/28/2006 6:27:45 PM PST by Blogger
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