To: Texas_shutterbug
Why would childbirth cause her to lose her virginity? That's like saying that using a tampon would cause me to lose my virginity? What is wrong with a baby passing through a birth canal that would cause one to lose one's virtue? In many cases today, when a baby is born it causes a tear or rip in the mother's perineum. Typically the doctor will stitch up the tear, although sometimes they simply let it heal on its own, depending on the severity of the tear. This is an example of bodily damage (loss of bodily integrity) being caused in the birth process. Similarly, in a woman whose hymen is intact, giving birth would cause such damage to the hymen. Her physical integrity would be corrupted (which shouldn't be mistaken for spiritual or moral corruption). But Christ the Savior could not violate the physical integrity of His mother, and hence the Church teaches that Mary remained a virgin (in all aspects) even throughout the birth of Christ.
Virginity has both a material and a formal aspect. The formal is more important (which is why St. Augustine argues that virgins who are raped and do not consent, do not lose their virginity, even if they lose their physical integrity), but that does not mean that the material aspect is worthless or insignificant.
-A8
271 posted on
12/05/2006 7:23:40 PM PST by
adiaireton8
("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
To: adiaireton8; HarleyD; AlbionGirl; Forest Keeper; xzins; blue-duncan; TomSmedley; Gamecock; ...
But Christ the Savior could not violate the physical integrity of His mother, and hence the Church teaches that Mary remained a virgin (in all aspects) even throughout the birth of Christ. The phrase, "violate the physical integrity of his mother," is legalistic, nonsensical and unScriptural. Christ was born of a woman because He was required to be 100% man and 100% God.
Christ's human birth was accomplished exactly like yours and mine was accomplished. This doesn't demean Him; it fulfills the requirement that God become man in order to pay the ransom for the sins of His elect which could never be satisfied by human recompense.
274 posted on
12/05/2006 7:33:12 PM PST by
Dr. Eckleburg
("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
To: adiaireton8
Why does it have to be one or the other? I firmly believe that Mary gave birth the traditional way, while remaining completely virgin in all senses of the word. See, it's God we're talking about here, anything is possible.
In my few discussions about this, I have found that mothers are the most passionate about their belief that Mary did indeed give birth physically, because it is so central to motherhood. But this doesn't mean she didn't stay completely virgin, physically as well. I believe the birth canal functioning as such would not be considered a breech of virginity. It makes perfect sense to me that God would have preserved all physical attributes of virginity as well, namely no tearing of the perineum, nor of the hymen. And I don't have to explain how, because it's God we're talking about.
At some point this becomes a matter of devotion, I believe. I, as a mother, need to feel united to Mary in this way. After all, I take great comfort turning to her in the throws of (undedicated) labor. Others choose to believe that birth occurred as a beam of light passing through her. As long as Mary's perpetual virginity is acknowledged, I see nothing wrong with taking a personal view that helps you the most. It's kind of the same way I view creation. I don't know, nor do I really care how God chose to do it. But I acknowledge that He is the Creator. So too, I don't know how Mary gave birth but I do know she is ever virgin.
292 posted on
12/05/2006 10:43:41 PM PST by
mockingbyrd
(Good heavens! What women these Christians have-----Libanus)
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