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To: bornacatholic
In my experience as a Protestant, the motivation was due in part to a prideful egalitarianism; it is comforting to believe that no other human (besides the God-man) was any holier than I am, since all our righteousness is as filthy rags ("used toilet paper", as my pentecostal pastor used to say). So Mary couldn't be any holier than us. We can hide the pridefulness of the egalitarianism behind our desire to give all the glory to Christ.

Similarly, that egalitarianism is what is behind 'sola scriptura'. No one can know more about Christ and the gospel than can I. We must all be equal. And the way to do that, is to say that everything we need to know is in the Bible and is equally perspicuous to all. We don't see all that uniquely Catholic stuff about Mary in the Bible, and therefore, we reject it.

And finally, we have no concept of the relation between virgnity and holiness. Holiness is "imputed". So in the mind of the Protestant, it is irrelevant to Mary's holiness whether Mary had sexual relations with Joseph after Jesus was born, (just as in their mind the same thing is irrelevant to Mary's holiness *before* Jesus is born, except for the divine stipulation that sex take place in the context of marriage). In the mind of the Protestant, the Catholic claim that Mary remained a virgin perpetually, implies that there is something sinful or at least less than pleasing-to-God about sex in the context of marriage. And in that sense, the doctrine is offensive and off-putting, for we know that sex in the context of marriage is fine with God.

-A8

186 posted on 12/05/2006 12:36:15 PM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: bornacatholic; TomSmedley
I wrote #186 before seeing #184. Case in point.

-A8

187 posted on 12/05/2006 12:38:32 PM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: adiaireton8

Thanks, brother. I think that an excellent explanation. I truly don't "get it" when it comes to the protestant mindset re Mary


199 posted on 12/05/2006 1:24:51 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: adiaireton8
In my experience as a Protestant, the motivation was due in part to a prideful egalitarianism

Well said. It captures the spirit of Porestant attitudes, imo.

209 posted on 12/05/2006 1:49:15 PM PST by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: adiaireton8; bornacatholic

It might be more useful to ask the Blessed Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary to interceed for the illumination of the soul and spirit of the protestants you are contending with on this thread than to argue with them.

Until someone realizes that the Scriptures are not trustworthy if the Church which canonized them is not trustworthy, arguing with them to uphold the perpetual virginity of the Theotokos, the utility of prayers for the dead, the reality of the Eucharist, the customs of making the sign of the Cross and facing East in prayer, or a variety of other points Christians had always accepted until the rationalism of the 'Reformation' set the stage for modern disbelief, is quite fruitless.

So long as they hold that the canon of Scripture, divorced from the interpretive context of the Church, is a complete axiom system for all truths about God and Christ, that what can be proved from its text (as shortened by Luther in accordance with the Christ-denying rabbis of Jamnia) by discursive human reason, and only what can be so proved is true, there is no opening by which with mere words their heart and reason can be prised open to the truth. They will deny the authority and teachings of the Holy Ecumenical Councils, the judgement of the Church that the Proto-Evangelium of James is trustworthy on many points of Our Lord's family history, and anything else you present them because they have supplement a wholesome and pious regard for the truth of Scripture with the unwarranted and ultimately heretical assumption of its completeness (despite the closing passage of the Gospel of St. John).


276 posted on 12/05/2006 7:55:48 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: adiaireton8
In my experience as a Protestant, the motivation was due in part to a prideful egalitarianism; it is comforting to believe that no other human (besides the God-man) was any holier than I am, since all our righteousness is as filthy rags ("used toilet paper", as my pentecostal pastor used to say). So Mary couldn't be any holier than us. We can hide the pridefulness of the egalitarianism behind our desire to give all the glory to Christ.

Interesting. As a Catholic I always suspected this was part of the reasoning behind the attacks on Our Lady. I always got the impression that most Protestants believe that all saints are equal in heaven too.

318 posted on 12/06/2006 6:49:53 AM PST by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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