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To: annalex

King James was by all intents a Catholic in Anglican clothes. He was HIGHLY SYMPATHETIC to Catholicism. His mother was killed over it. Politically, he had to be Protestant. But in his heart, he was Catholic - as were some of his children. Of course, one needed jump on the Protestants too hard for making the political situation so strict. Bloody Mary wasn't exactly the nicest person to live through - and while Elizabeth killed as many people in her reign as Mary did - Elizabeth's reign was far longer so on average hers was much less bloody.

Anyway, back to Mickey Mouse Translations. My least favorite is the NIV. It's only redeeming value is that it is very readable and makes Paul's letter seem like actual letters. But as a translation, it is not very good.

KJV is my favorite. I grew up on it. It hasn't always used the best interpretation of certain words; but I haven't seen it resort to making up meanings. Any "mistakes" referred to before were likely printing errors or word order or something to the effect of the sinful Bible - talk about an oops.

The KJV Committee didn't avoid Priest at all. They just didn't translate presbuteros as priest. Again, another quite legitimate translation. I do not see in my lexicons where presbuteros ever means priest. Just don't. I looked it up after you mentioned it.

But, there are plenty of times where priests are referred to in the KJV in both testaments. We are even called priests. So, I don't really see an concerted effort to ban mentioning priests - especially when I can't find presbuteros meaning priest at all. Maybe another lexicon has priest as a possible meaning. Mine doesn't.

1 Timothy 4 isn't really the function of a priest. Also the word was presbuterion. Per Strongs: Presbuterion Neuter of a presumed derivative of presbuteros; the order of elders, i.e. (specially), Israelite Sanhedrin or Christian "presbytery."


The NT Greek Lexicon says it is body of elders, presbytery, senate, council
of the Jewish elders
of the elders of any body (assembly) of Christians and that it is presumed to derive from presbuteros which means:
elder, of age,
the elder of two people
advanced in life, an elder, a senior
forefathers
a term of rank or office
among the Jews
members of the great council or Sanhedrin (because in early times the rulers of the people, judges, etc., were selected from elderly men)
of those who in separate cities managed public affairs and administered justice
among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches) The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably
the twenty four members of the heavenly Sanhedrin or court seated on thrones around the throne of God

Do you have any lexicons that actually translate it priest. I've been looking for them. I do not see any .


1,579 posted on 12/15/2006 8:39:49 PM PST by Blogger
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To: Blogger; Kolokotronis
King James was by all intents a Catholic in Anglican clothes.

I, of course, am referring not the King himself but to the KJV.

My big beef with King James translation is "most favored one" for "kecharitomene" in Luke 1 and "elder for "presbyteros". Both are highly questionable and just happen to obfuscate the two significant elements of Catholicism. Yes, NIV is pretty bad.

Regarding "presbyteros", like you mention later, the word "priest" derives from it, and functionally the references are to Christian priests at least in some contexts; certainly in 1 Timothy 4:14 where the reference is to Timothy's ordination.

It is true that in a vacuum "elder" would be a good translation. But KJV does not exist in a vacuum. Then and now, Christian churches have priests; till the Reformation it would not occur to anyone to translate it as "elder". It is as if someone wanted to erase the references to the "president" in the US constitution and started referring to that word as "chairman" instead, or perhaps "front-sitter". While "president" derives from "chair" or from "to sit in front", it has an established meaning that is all-important in American politics.

1,716 posted on 12/17/2006 9:11:32 PM PST by annalex
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