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To: kosta50; Marysecretary
(and, of course, you copied it from Wikipedia almost word by word;)...The Orthodox Church states "Faith is the path along which God and the human person encounter each other. It is God who makes the first step:..

It is God who makes the first step: He fully and unconditionally believes in the human person and gives him a sign, an awareness of His presence. We hear the mysterious call of God, and our first step towards an encounter with Him is a response to this call. God may call us openly or in secret, overtly or covertly. But it is difficult for us to believe in Him if we do not first heed this call

The Council of Orange was a local council and could not proclaim anyone heretical on behalf of the whole Church.


14,579 posted on 05/14/2007 10:53:52 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD; Marysecretary
I'm not talking about what the Orthodox Church believes. I'm talking about what Semi-Pelagian is. Surely you're not suggesting the Orthodox view is semi-Pelagian are you?

St. John Cassian's theology is that of the Eastern Orthodox Church. It is consistent with the teachings of the Desert Fathers, the Cappadocian Fathers and the Hesychastic monks whose doctrine is the backbone of Orthodoxy.

The excerpt from the Orthodox Catechism of the Russian Orthodox Church makes it very clear that God knocks on our doors and we either open our doors and let Him in or refuse Him. We are free by God's permission, and we exercise our freedom in responding to His call as well as in rejecting it.

But God makes the first move. We can either follow or stay behind. That is our decision. God offers salvation to all, even though He knows not all will accept it. God is not partial.

Under whose power do you take that first step, your's or His? He reveals Himself but who has to move?

Ours, of course. We don't have to move. That's the whole point. God gives us a choice; He doesn't make it for us.

Well, they certainly did a lot of "cursing" for being a "local" council

Little dogs bark louder to make up for their size.

Free discloser for Marysecretary; John Cassian is highly regarded in the Orthodox Church

Highly regarded? That's an understatement. He is a Saint in both Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches.

Pelagius believed there was no such thing as Original Sin. Neither do the Orthodox. I would be interested in knowing if Cassian believed in Original Sin

Of course not. Original Sin, as +Augustine understood it, was largely unknown unknown to the Church for four centuries, some fathers leaning to different degrees in +Augustinan direction notwithstanding.

The Orthodox Church hods that the soul is ill, in need of a spiritual physician, as a result of our ancestral (i.e. "original") sin. +Augustine believed our souls were dead. And Pelagius believed our souls were perfectly healthy.

It is noteworthy to mention that +Cassian condemmned Pelagianism as another form of Nestorianism. The Catholic Church eventually dropped +Augustine's errors and kept those portions of his teachings that were in concernt with the rest of Patristic theology.

A good summary of the Eastern Orthodox faith, where you can find many of these answers is on Wikipedia under Eastern Orthodox Church.

This is what the Orthodox Church has to say about the Orthodox Church has to say about the "Original Sin" (from Russian Orthodox Catechism) with my emphases added:

[1]Some translations say "inasmuch as all have sinned."

Hopefully, this will shed some light on this issue so that you may understand how this difference emerged. Greeks know their language better than anyone else. +Augustine's knowledge of Greek was poor. That is a well known fact. Many of his translations bore erroneous translations.

Part of the problem is that +Paul spoke in convoluted terms. often saying things that are neither here nor there. Thus, as much as +Paul was instrumental in spreading Christianity and saving the Church from certain demise in Israel, he is also inadvertently instrumental for our confessional divisions and Christianity divided.

14,589 posted on 05/14/2007 5:12:28 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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