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To: annalex

Ever actually study the translation of the King James Bible? The men who did so were quite competent and careful scholars - and King James wasn't one of them.

Actually, ever study King James? He wasn't exactly unfriendly to Catholics, so I don't know why you would say he was avoiding translating presbuteros "priest"

The verse in Timothy is translated ELDER, and such translation makes perfect sense since the verse reads
1 Timothy 5

1Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

The other verse reads: 14Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

The verse before that by the way reads: 13Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

Actually, the whole chapter is meaty.
It starts out this way:
1 Timothy 4

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

I don't know of any protestants who forbid people to marry or abstain from meats.


1,438 posted on 12/14/2006 8:10:15 PM PST by Blogger
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To: Blogger
The translation I use routinely is Douay-Rheims. It has the complete Canon, is older than King James in historical origin, and word-by-word follows the Jerome's Vulgate.

King James is not all bad, it is certainly miles ahead of the modern Micky Mouse translations (of which the New King James takes the cake). Yet the systematic mistranslation of "priest", as well as a few other features that represent nothing but Protestant spin, make it ultimately harmful.

In making textual arguments I use Unbound Bible which contains most truncated translations, the Septuagint, the New Testament originals, and the Hebrew Old Testament. I often include King James in my search, first because it is often dispositive for the Protestant opponent and rarely disagrees with Douay, and secondly, to grow my collection of KJV abnormalities.

The verse in Timothy is translated ELDER, and such translation makes perfect sense since the verse reads 1 Timothy 5
1Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father;

In 1 Tim 5 it is possible to translate "elder" as the reference is to age. Douay has it "ancient". If KJV had not made abundant references to "elder" meaning "priest", it would have been an appropriate choice. However, in 4:14 the reference is made to the sacramental function of the priest, yet King James leaves it untranslated: "presbytery". Would it have killed them to say "priest", the established word that the reformers themselves would use describing Catholic ordinations?

The reference to "forbidding to marry and eat meat" is criticism of the gnostics; if your intention is to make reference to the Catholic practices, do not forget that St. Paul recommended celibacy for priests.

1,560 posted on 12/15/2006 3:04:16 PM PST by annalex
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