I interepted your post as agreeing with our Protestant friends who seem to believe that souls pre-exist bodies, to wit:
To which Dr. E responds
clearly signaling that the Old Testament (in her opinion) teaches the pre-existence of the souls.
To which I asked for Biblical references (which i have not received), showing that the Bible teaches pre-existence of thre souls.
To say that God knew us before He created us is to separate God's thoughts and creation, which are one and the same. The Bible doesn't tell us that God creates first by "thinking it out," but instead by Word: "Let there be light." And light is created. God created man after He created light and earth, etc. So, man's existence was not before all ages, but on "day" six, when time and the sun and all other things already existed.
And even then, man was not really created until God breathed the soul through man's nostrils. So, there was a deifnite time, not before all ages, when man was not and his soul was not. The same goes for all of us.
This proves (to me) that what the body is, what the soul is, and what the spirit is, and how they relate to each other, is base knowledge to determining pretty much anything spiritual.. How can you(somebody) know what most/many verses even mean without that base..
This question is NOT MINUTIA... IMO.
To which I asked for Biblical references (which i have not received), showing that the Bible teaches pre-existence of thre souls.
Did you think you could just slip that one past us and hope we weren't keeping track? 8~)
You didn't even ask me for OT Scripture supporting the Biblical truth that God from all eternity purposed every believer, but I gave it to you anyway in post #13838...
KOSTA: The souls are not pre-fabricated in advance. That is a pagan, even Gnostic belief.
"Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him." -- Isaiah 43:7 "Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee" -- Isaiah 44:2 "Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?" -- Job 38:36 "For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them." -- Psalms 139:13-16 "For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive?" -- 1 Corinthians 4:7 The soul is not independent of its Creator. We are the sum and substance of that which the Creator ordained from before the foundation of the world."FOREST KEEPER: He knew all of us before we were created physically
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee" -- Jeremiah 1:5
You you were given Scripture, and you seem to have chosen to ignore it.
I'll add that any understanding other than the above means God concocts souls and lives and history in real time only and not from before the foundation of the world. Which is preposterous given the definition of an omnipotent, omniscient, all-creative, eternal and boundless Creator who knows the end from the beginning because He created all things for His glory.
And even then, man was not really created until God breathed the soul through man's nostrils. So, there was a deifnite time, not before all ages, when man was not and his soul was not. The same goes for all of us.
2. That God did not “think it out” before He said “let there be Light.” Indeed, Isaiah 46:9-10 says He declares the end from the beginning. How is that not “thinking it out?”
3. That God’s breathing (neshama) into Adam’s nostrils in Genesis 2 took place on Day 6 of creation week. There is a timing anamoly between Genesis 1 and 2, e.g. Genesis 2 declares that God created the plants before they were in the earth. Also, the plants are created on Day 3 but there is no sun or moon until Day 4. Likewise, it is a presumption to say that the men created on Day 6 were entirely Adam and Eve and their descendants (Genesis 2).
4. That Genesis 2 and 3 are speaking of events “in” the physical realm. Truly, the leaning I have in the spirit is that Genesis 1-3 speaks to the creation of both the physical and the spiritual and that Adam was created in the spiritual realm (which is not spatially separated from the physical realm) and was banished to mortality at the end of Genesis 3, the countdown for Adamic man beginning in Genesis 4.
4. That God unfolded Creation serially to the conscious within the timeline specified in Creation week. That is to say, like we would do things “in” space/time not knowing the next step until the current step is finished – cause/effect in a directional arrow of time. There is no reason to presume that God does not possess all of His own breath (neshama) in timelessness and dispenses it into Adamic men "in" space/time according to His will, e.g. at conception or through inheritance from Adam.