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To: betty boop; kosta50; hosepipe; metmom; Quix; T'wit
What a wonderful essay-post, dearest sister in Christ! You keep expanding my reading to-do list. LOL!

Anyhoot, the above-mentioned "totality" is (I think) that which is fundamentally constituted by the underlying geometry, presumably from the beginning. Math (geometry) is a sort of "dimensionless existent" which man is able to discover (because it is implicit in the order of the universe -- what David Bohm referred to as the "implicate order").

Precisely so!!!

The underlying geometry is necessary for any concept of form (spatial) - time - and most especially, physical causation.

In the absence of space, things cannot exist.

In the absence of time, events cannot occur.

Structure (space/time) lies at the root of the Creation, from the beginning!

All of the physical cosmologies rely on geometry for physical causation, which is to say that regardless of cosmology - there had to be an uncaused cause of physical causation itself, i.e. the underlying geometry!

As much as science tries to obviate God the Creator, it cannot come up with a "just so" story to explain the beginning of space/time, i.e. physical causation.

The geekiest of Lurkers will no doubt quickly recognize complementaries in the underlying geometry of the cosmos! Dualities, for instance, suggest that two different physical systems with completely different looking properties can nevertheless be isomorphic if one considers quantum geometry on either side. S-duality is an equivalence between two quantum field theories, string theories or M-theory which allows the physicist/mathematician to transport his observations from one frame to the other. Likewise, Calabi-Yau manifolds because mirror symmetry (e.g. right hand v left hand) can exist between two of them which makes string theory all the more reasonable.

Oh, and I agree with you about Lanza's speculations. I'm not ready to embrace them either - though I keep them "on the shelf" for future reference.

13,861 posted on 05/03/2007 8:11:59 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; Quix; hosepipe; kosta50
You keep expanding my reading to-do list. LOL!

This one is truly superb -- the Niels Bohr: A Centenary Volume. As are the Abraham Pais biographies of Einstein and Bohr; plus Pais' marvelous history of twentieth-century physics, Inward Bound. Plus I've got a couple of William James' works on their way from Amazon as we speak. You see, I'm doing my homework on "the observer problem...." One thing leads to another; whatta feast!!!

It turns out there is an uncanny resemblance between some of the ideas of Bohr and those of Eric Voegelin, particularly those relating to the subject of consciousness -- observation. This is truly exciting for me!

You wrote: "All of the physical cosmologies rely on geometry for physical causation, which is to say that regardless of cosmology - there had to be an uncaused cause of physical causation itself, i.e. the underlying geometry!.... As much as science tries to obviate God the Creator, it cannot come up with a 'just so' story to explain the beginning of space/time, i.e. physical causation." (Just had to stick those bolds in there....)

I see this soooooooooo clearly! Science ought not to obviate God; that's not to say scientists can put Him in a laboratory anytime soon. But just because one's "method" does not and cannot reach to God, it does not necessarily follow that God is, therefore, a fiction: The heavens and earth declare Him!

As Voltaire declared (IIRC), "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to create Him." Whatta wag! But there's truth to his saying.... Or so it seems to me, FWIW.

An ordered universe requires a Logos in order to come into existence and then to continue in existence.... The Logos God spoke in the beginning (a "dimensionless geometry") is the foundation of universal order. That is, physical laws have a deeper basis than themselves.

Or at least, that's what it looks like to me, an observer.... FWIW. Thank you so much for writing, dearest sister in Christ!

13,864 posted on 05/03/2007 8:55:00 AM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein.)
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