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To: kosta50
Dear Friend ,Thank you for your response

Here is an excerpt from an article called “The Originality of Original Sin”
http://catholica.pontifications.net/?p=2252
I thought this article was quite good , equally good were some of the response posts (don,t click next after article and scroll down)

Excerpt;
The concern here has been to understand the impact of God’s gratuitous self-communication on the human being. But the Catholic Church can hardly insist that all theology must think in scholastic categories and replicate the theology of Thomas Aquinas or Robert Bellarmine, especially when so many of her own theologians are thinking the faith outside the scholastic box. Consider, for example, the presentation of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception by Karl Rahner:

The Immaculate Conception means that Mary possessed grace from the beginning. What does it signify, though, to say that someone has sanctifying grace? This dry technical term of theology makes it sound as though some thing were meant. Yet ultimately sanctifying grace and its possession do not signify any thing, not even merely some sublime, mysterious condition of our souls, lying beyond the world of our personal experience and only believed in a remote, theoretical way. Sanctifying grace, fundamentally, means God himself, his communications to created spirits, the gift which is God himself. Grace is light, love, receptive access of a human being’s life as a spiritual person to the infinite expenses of the Godhead. Grace means freedom, strength, a pledge of eternal life, the predominant influence of the Holy Spirit in the depths of the soul, adoptive sonship and an eternal inheritance. (Mary, Mother of the Lord [1963], p. 48)

Like us, Mary is born into a sinful world and must engage in spiritual battle against Satan and the principalities and powers. Like us, Mary is mortal and lives in the knowledge of her mortality. Yet she differs from us in one crucial respect: from the very first moment she came into existence in her mother’s womb she was indwelt by the Holy Spirit and thus enjoyed intimate, enduring communion with God. In this sense, the blessed Virgin Mother was, by the grace of God, free from sin, original and actual. Do Orthodox Christians truly desire to deny this? If the Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is reformulated in positive terms, as the assertion of Mary’s possession of the Holy Spirit from conception, does the doctrine then become acceptable to the East? And if Catholics and Orthodox can agree on the original purity of the Theotokos, do they not in fact essentially agree on original sin?

I,ll post the article on a thread if you wish?
But unfortunately I will not be able to participate much because of a busy upcoming week.

Here is something you may enjoy.

MIRROR OF THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY
by St. Bonaventure
http://www.franciscan-sfo.org/ap/bona/MIRROR.htm

Dear Friend, We are united In the Eucharist The Body of Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ,thus we are one family in Christ! This will ultimately heal any differences.
I truly believe this in my heart.

I wish you and your family a most Blessed Day!

13,714 posted on 04/29/2007 11:24:02 AM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: stfassisi; kosta50
"Yet she differs from us in one crucial respect: from the very first moment she came into existence in her mother’s womb she was indwelt by the Holy Spirit and thus enjoyed intimate, enduring communion with God. In this sense, the blessed Virgin Mother was, by the grace of God, free from sin, original and actual. Do Orthodox Christians truly desire to deny this?"

Yes! We positively deny the existence of Original Sin, as do the Fathers.

"If the Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is reformulated in positive terms, as the assertion of Mary’s possession of the Holy Spirit from conception, does the doctrine then become acceptable to the East?"

No! The Church has not spoken definitively on when The Most Holy Theotokos became "κεχαριτωμενη". There is all sorts of speculation about when, some saying in the womb, some saying when she enetered the Temple as a child, some when the Archangel Gabriel appeared before her. Personally I believe it must have been at or before she reached the age of reason. +John Chrysostomos himself argued that Panagia was not in fact sinless, though admittedly this speculation was not within the consensus patrum. The fact of the matter is the Fathers always admitted that they were speculating about this.

"And if Catholics and Orthodox can agree on the original purity of the Theotokos, do they not in fact essentially agree on original sin?"

Absolutely not! Do you understand what "Original Sin" is? Isn't that covered in RCIA? Saying that Panagia was sinless from conception says nothing about the existence or non-existence of "Original Sin".

13,716 posted on 04/29/2007 2:16:16 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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