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Thank you for sharing your insights, dear kosta50!

They say opposite things. That much is certain.

No they do not say opposite things when we discern the revelations of God in the whole of Scripture, by the indwelling Spirit.

But anyone can pick phrases or sentences out of context and declare a contradiction. Muslim and atheist activists do this a lot on the internet in their efforts to turn believers away from Christ. The irrational hatred of Judeo/Christian belief and believers stands as evidence that more is at work than scholarly debate.

If one attempts to superimpose Aristotlean logic on God, he will no doubt see many Scriptural violations of the Law of Identity (e,g. Trinity) and Law of the Excluded Middle (either/or e.g. predestination v free will.) Likewise, if he begins with the presupposition that all that exists is what he can perceive with his own senses, he will reject much or most of Scripture.

For many this results (whether intentionally or not) in their anthropomorphizing God – i.e. rejecting anything about God which the mortal mind cannot obtain. These cannot know anything but a conceptualization of a small “god.” The others however may have an evil intent, namely the spirit of anti-Christ or anti-God.

And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God...Luke 4:41

Two things about this: first, demons were not what we think of "demons" (that had to wait until the Middle Ages), and two, what they are saying is that he is the Jewish messiah, the anointed of God, not that he is God himself.

To the contrary, even presuming a strictly Jewish Messianic meaning to the term “Christ the Son of God” – the phrase “Son of God” means the devils were saying Jesus Christ is equal to God the Father:

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. – John 5:18

You asked in reference to Luke 4:41:

What's the point of that verse anyway?

I raised it to contrast between “knowing” as in recognizing (which the devils did here, recognizing who Christ is) versus “knowing” as in intimacy (Christ knowing us, our knowing Christ.)

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:26-27

Look, this clearly contradicts Luke 4:41 where the demnons say they believe...yet John says I don't know you because you don't believe...which is it?

As James also says, the demons believe and they tremble. Again, the difference is between “knowing” or believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and “knowing” as in the intimacy.

Also you have the cause/effect wrong. It is not “I do not know you because you don’t believe.” Rather, the first cause in this case is that the Father draws whom He will to Christ, then those who are drawn to Christ spiritually (not physically) hear Him, then Christ “knows” them (intimately) and they follow Him. That is why Peter is called the rock by The Rock.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. – Matt 16:17

And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. – John 6:65

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:27

Not recognizing this sequence of cause/effect can result in man’s erroneously thinking that he has any power at all to redeem himself – e.g. by teeth gritting determination plus good deeds, etc.

me To paraphrase, if we declare Christ, He will declare us – if we deny Him, he will deny us

You And here I though faith was a free (unconditional) gift of God as they say. Seems like there are some heavy ropes attached to this.

It is certainly a gift of the Father to be drawn to Christ. And certainly Christ’s atonement is nothing that any of us could have earned. Indeed, if it were possible to be “good enough” then Christ died for nothing.

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. – Galatians 2:21

But God is perfectly just. And we will all be held accountable not only for what we did in this mortal life – but for our intentions, our thoughts. The good that we might “do” in life which is motivated by our desire to win the praise of others will be loss. The measure we use in judging others, He will use in judging us. If we are merciful, we will obtain mercy. If we think a sin, even if we do not physically carry it out, we will be held accountable. And so on. (Sermon on the Mount) If we do nothing with the gifts He has given us we will be held accountable (parable of the talents.) If we choose not to follow the Spirit, we will be in peril (Romans 8.) If we deny Him, He’ll deny us, etc.

My musings on the Great White Throne Judgment is this: everyone Christ “knows” (book of life) will make it into the new heaven and earth. But many of us will find ourselves in poverty – heavenly ‘hippies’ – because we squandered the gift of grace while in the flesh. Some who have devoted their entire lives to the ministry – but for self-serving reasons – will find themselves impoverished and sitting in the back of the congregation. And others may be astonished to see what treasures they have laid up, or being assigned a place in the front of the congregation, because their motives were pure. The first will be last, the last will be first.

Only Paul (and one verse in Acts, probably under Pual's influence) says that Christ was raised by God. The Church professes that Christ rose on the third day. At no time was there a separation between His human and His divine nature. Christ did not need "God" to raise Him any more than He "needed" the Spirit to lead Him into wilderness. Christ's divine nature was suffcient to lead him and to raise Him.

The perceived conflict is not real, it is the consequence of superimposing Aristotle’s Law of Identity on God. Christ is God.

This anthropomorphizing of God is among the reasons why I’m so adamant about eschewing the doctrines and traditions of mortal men.

and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Obviously, reading wasn't an option. So much for sola scriptura.

Sola Scriptura is among the doctrines and traditions of men which I eschew. However, I hasten to point out that the “hearing” which matters is not physical (words spoken or read) but spiritual..

Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. – John 8:43

The ones Christ is speaking to here were physically hearing Him (sound, pressure waves) – but they were not, indeed could not, spiritually hear Him. God the Father had not drawn them to Christ.

In sum, terms such as “knowing” “believing” “hearing” require spiritual discernment. (I Cor 2)

The measure we use in judging others, He will use in judging us.

But as Christians and believers in the triune God of all creation, we will be judged by Christ's righteousness and not our own. That is the glorious gift of His justification of us. Through nothing in ourselves we have been forgiven of our sins and acquitted of our trespasses because Christ has taken on the job of standing in our place and paying the debt for our transgressions.

If we think a sin, even if we do not physically carry it out, we will be held accountable.

Yes, that is completely true. Accountable for every sin we ever commit or think.

And still He shoulders the punishment for every one of them.

"Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." -- Hebrews 10:5-10

This is the magnificent distinction of grace that sets Christianity apart from every religion on earth for all time -- someone else pays the tab, God Himself.

A-G, your posts are so wonderful, the only thing I really "hate" is that I disagree with them! :)

Pascal said that we cannot know how God is. Which is why we can only discern what God is not, rather than what He is -- that is -- by apophatic thinking. God cannot be reached by cataphatic logic, scholasticism, quantum physics or Aristotelian philosophy. God can be reached only through prayer.

In Judaism, the Son of God did not mean that someone is divine.Jesus was not condemned because He said or implied that He was the Son of God but because he said he could forgive sins.

Quoting scriptures does little for me. I look at them in the world when they were written. The Gospel according to John was written some 60 years after the Crucifixion, probably by someone other than Apostle John, with a clear agenda, a highly developed theology and a superb writing talent.

The oldest fragment of John's Gospel, Chapter 1, is not even titled. Someone later on added "according to..."

To me, Scriptures have a different meaning: they tell me that people who are pure in heart are better neighbors; that the merciful deserve mercy; that we must never blame God for anything but only thank Him, that love, not hate, is our salvation, etc.

The Bible was written and rewritten by human hands an human desires and prejudices, etc. But the message of love and mercy (NT) remains nonetheless untouched. In that sense, the Scripture has been preserved.

Christ “knows” them (intimately) and they follow Him. That is why Peter is called the rock by The Rock

Peter was nothing more or less than others. He was the oldest, and in the Jewish culture, 1st century AD, that was very significant when it came to any election. Unfortunately, such facts take the mystery out of the scripture.

Kosta And here I though faith was a free (unconditional) gift of God as they say. Seems like there are some heavy ropes attached to this

A-G If we are merciful, we will obtain mercy. If we think a sin, even if we do not physically carry it out, we will be held accountable. And so on. (Sermon on the Mount) If we do nothing with the gifts He has given us we will be held accountable (parable of the talents.) If we choose not to follow the Spirit, we will be in peril (Romans 8.) If we deny Him, He’ll deny us, etc.

Correct. The if-then relationship shows that it is not unconditional and therefore not "free." I have objected to the "free gift' oxymoron already on these threads. God's offer is an "if-then" proposition; not a free gift.

But many of us will find ourselves in poverty – heavenly ‘hippies’ – because we squandered the gift of grace while in the flesh. Some who have devoted their entire lives to the ministry – but for self-serving reasons – will find themselves impoverished and sitting in the back of the congregation

The reformed will tell you that's because God pre-programmed some to become "heavenly hippies." But your "musings" are really just your fancy, anthropomorphizing heaven.

The perceived conflict is not real, it is the consequence of superimposing Aristotle’s Law of Identity on God. Christ is God.

Why is it that anything that you disagree with becomes "superimposing Aristotle's Law of identity," but when you agree with something then it is the indwelling "Spirit" talking? If you really wat to be a stickler to anthropomoprhization of God, then everything that has every been written about God is anthropomorphism because our words are inherently anthropomorphic, and our toughs are anthropomorphic when it comes to anything we don't or can't know.

Paul's writngs clearly say that God [sic] raised Christ on numerous occasions. That tells me, without a doubt, that his idea of Jesus was not what we profess in the Creed.