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To: kosta50; hosepipe; betty boop; .30Carbine; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg
Sorry to be tardy with my reply! I ran out of steam last night.

Please, show me why is Mat 7:21-23 "true" and Acts 2:21, Romans 10:13 and Joel 2:32 are not.

They are all Truth. Cherry picking Scripture can result in a perception of paradox which is not real.

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: - Luke 24:25

The cherry picked verses are shown in context below, the operative phrases which reveal the unity are underlined:

In this passage, Christ says that calling out His name is not evidence that He “knows” a person:

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. - Matt 7:21-23

This is not “know” in the sense of recognize – but “know” in the sense of intimacy. The devils for instance knew Christ and spoke His Name:

And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking [them] suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ. – Luke 4:41

When Christ “knows” us – He makes that intimate connection – that baptism of the Holy Spirit which makes us a new creature in Him:

I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. – John 10:14-15

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:26-27

Other uses of the term with this intimacy meaning:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. – Gen 2:17

Ye have been rebellious against the LORD from the day that I knew you. – Deu 9:24

They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new [gods that] came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. – Deu 32:17

Marital intimacy is a “type” of this knowing:

And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. – Gen 4:1

For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. – Eph 5:31-32

Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. – Matt 19:6

The following passage speaks to our profession of faith. To paraphrase, if we declare Christ, He will declare us – if we deny Him, he will deny us. The person who calls upon the Name of the Lord is the one Jesus Christ knows in Matt 7 and John 10:

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? - Romans 10:9-14

See also:

Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. – Matt 10:32-33

The following passage - and Acts 2:21 which cites it - reaches to the end of what began at Pentecost, i.e. Christ’s millennial Sabbath reign on earth which is followed by the new heaven and earth. The calling out to the Lord is by all flesh upon whom God has poured out His Spirit, those who enter His rest, the remnant:

And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. - Joel 2:28-32

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. - Acts 2:16-21


13,439 posted on 04/24/2007 7:56:23 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

Thank you oh so much, dearest A-G, for this gloriously beautiful essay/post!


13,446 posted on 04/24/2007 9:26:18 AM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein.)
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To: Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; betty boop; .30Carbine; Quix
They are all Truth

They say opposite things. That much is certain.

Cherry picking Scripture can result in a perception of paradox which is not real

Every time there is a clear contradiction we call it a "paradox" and move on.

This is not “know” in the sense of recognize

I am aware of that.

And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God...Luke 4:41

Two things about this: first, demons were not what we think of "demons" (that had to wait until the Middle Ages), and two, what they are saying is that he is the Jewish messiah, the anointed of God, not that he is God himself.

What's the point of that verse anyway?

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:26-27

Look, this clearly contradicts Luke 4:41 where the demnons say they believe...yet John says I don't know you because you don't believe...which is it?

To paraphrase, if we declare Christ, He will declare us – if we deny Him, he will deny us

And here I though faith was a free (unconditional) gift of God as they say. Seems like there are some heavy ropes attached to this.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead

Only Paul (and one verse in Acts, probably under Pual's influence) says that Christ was raised by God. The Church professes that Christ rose on the third day. At no time was there a separation between His human and His divine nature. Christ did not need "God" to raise Him any more than He "needed" the Spirit to lead Him into wilderness. Christ's divine nature was suffcient to lead him and to raise Him.

and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Obviously, reading wasn't an option. So much for sola scriptura.

13,475 posted on 04/24/2007 1:02:41 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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