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To: Blogger
you just ignorred all of the Scripture which says that we have been given the Holy Spirit as believers

No I did not. We are indeed given the Holy Ghost at the sacrament of confirmation (chrysmation to the Orthodox).

I've already said what I think the keys to the Kingdom mean. They are the power to bind and loose

You think that, I know, but it is not what the scripture says.

Salvation is through God alone. It happens one way. Not through church membership. Not through baptism. Not through Eucharist. Not through church attendance or tithing. None of those things. Salvation is through Christ alone. Through faith alone. Exclusive of works - though it will show works as evidence that it has happened.

Salvation is from Christ alone, yes. The rest of what you said is not supported by the scripture, not taught by the Church and is a Protestant extrascriptural fantasy. For example, Eph 2:8 which you cite goes on to say that we should walk in good works prepared for us by God, and when it says that we are not saved of works, it qualified that these are works done for boast or reward. This is consistent throughout Pauline epistles: that work of obligation, or work done for reward, do not save, but that work of charity is necessary for salvation. After all, James 2:24 says it plainly: "Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?". If you twist that into some faith-alone knot, you are following traditions of Luther, and not the scripture.

Regarding security of salvation, you are reading into the scripture what is not in it. John 10 does speak of it. But it does not say that a sinner cannot cast himself out of the hand of God. Nor does it say that the Church may not determine what sin is. In other scripture we read that men do lose their faith and the Church does condemn them to hell (1 Tim 1:19-20, and again Mt 18:17)

Rome did not become supreme until centuries later

I gave you an example of Pope Clement, 2c. dealing authoritatively with the Corinthians. Yes, the power of the papacy grew gradually in response to the Church's need. Turn away form Protestant heresies, and that power will be relaxed.

Your church has lied to You

I can tell you who lied. Luther lied. He invented his stupid theology out of his masturbation habit. He proceeded to spit vomit against the Church of Christ. He mutilated the scripture to fit his error, desecrated churches and monasteries and started 30 thousand para-christian sects. Don't you dare tell me calumnies against my Church. You Protestant background denies you standing.

1,319 posted on 12/13/2006 8:32:39 AM PST by annalex
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To: annalex; Blogger

Caution: stay with the issues and do not make it personal.


1,320 posted on 12/13/2006 8:35:14 AM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: annalex

Annalex. All I can say is study Scripture. What Calvin says, what Luther says, what Augustine says, what any man/woman/child says is nothing if it contradicts Scripture. All Scripture is given by God and is profitable for Doctrine, for reproof, for instruction in righteousness.

Scripture is where you will find the truth and the Holy Spirit will lead the way.

Guess we better let the thread try to get back to Mary somehow. Though the other discussions do become relevant when a particular group claims authority to be angry about her portrayal. Such authority deserves to be examined, which I think we've done.

Have a good day.


1,326 posted on 12/13/2006 10:51:58 AM PST by Blogger
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