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To: Alamo-Girl; .30Carbine; betty boop; Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; auggy; Mad Dawg; ...
Truly - although we can say that God does not change (permanence) we cannot say that all change (flux) is of necessity, evil.

I can only say that God's statement about HE CHANGES NOT is not fully comprehended by our finiteness and that I am not 100% certain which of His many attributes, aspects, habits, Natures, actions, etc. He was referring to, including vs excluding in that statement.

It is quite plausible to me that every aspect OF HIS NATURE--CHANGES NOT. So, I could assume that ALL of His NATURE TYPE ATTRIBUTES remain enduringly consistent, unchanged eternally.

I do not assume that GOD NEVER DOES nor NEVER WILL DO A NEW THING since history and Scriptur indicate clearly otherwise persistently. One of His persistent ATTRIBUTES OF HIS NATURE, in fact, is His evident DELIGHT in doing new things. It seems rather like a DADDY loving to come home from every trip with a new surprise for his favorite son. God Loves springing things on His kids.

Some of it seems to be just that--HIS GOOD PLEASURE.

And some of it seems to be HIS DISCIPLINE FOR US--His kids--that we not become locked into a ritualized static rut where we treat Him and our relationship with Him as some sort of automatized vending machine pseudo relationship that all the life has leaked out of. HE KEEPS US ON OUR TOES, ON OUR KNEES AND PERSISTENTLY SEEKING HIM JUST TO KEEP UP WITH WHAT HE'S DOING GENERALLY IN CREATION AND IN OUR OWN INDIVIDUAL LIVES.

We can say that flux is not a property of God and it is a property of the Creation, both spiritual and physical - which includes man of course.

I don't think I can say that. Depends on what's meant, I suppose. As Frances Shafer articulated so well--The Trinity is UNITY IN DIVERSITY. They can have eternal dialogue ALONE. Yet, they are supremely ONE. Solves that eternal conundrum. Would their dialogue equal flux? Depends, I suppose.

Certainly Scriptural descriptions of Holy Spirit moving over Creation--over the waters, breathing . . . into man . . . the FIRE of HOLY SPIRIT--sounds like a paragon, SUPREME FLUX, to me.

Sometimes, it seems like DADDY'S NATURE is SOOOOOOOOO SUPREMELY CREATIVE . . . that He's more than a little like DADDY WARBUCKS LOOSE IN TOYS-R-US delightedly cooking up surprise after surprise for HIS KIDS. Much more of a flux sort of behavior than a sitting on the throne eternally contemplating His navel sort of behavior.

I think Scripture indicates He delights in creating and hiding things for us to discover.

It is possible that we will be permanent in the new heaven and earth – it is also possible that God will provide for flux or change. But I’m very sure there will be no evil at all in the new heaven and earth, i.e. no evil flux.

Certainly no problem agreeing with "no evil flux" wholesale. I think it is our finiteness that would even dare to ascribe any Godly flux as being evil to begin with. Some just have a hard time wrapping workable comprehension around CHANGES NOT/IS MAXIMALLY ETERNALLY CREATIVE AND DYNAMIC.

Or perhaps there will be permanence in heaven for only some of us? This is the promise to the church of Philadelphia:

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name. – Rev 3:12

I don't think we have much of a clue about what that REALITY, EXISTENCE, BEING will BE like. But whatever it is--given that it's an honor--I CANNOT IMAGINE IT BEING MORE LIMITING, less glorious, less expansive, less involved, less in-touch with Creation . . . than those who go in and out. I CAN imagine it being MORE glorious, more exapnsive, more involved, more in-touch . . . with Creation than those who go in and out.

Compare that to this promise to the church of Ephesus:

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. – Rev 2:7

Fascinating. God did not make us to be “cookie cutter” Christians. After all, there are twelve very different gemstones representing the very different apostles in the foundation of the New Jerusalem.

The leaning I have in the Spirit is to the church of Philadelphia, the apostle John and a burning desire to be transparent in Christ so His Light may shine unobstructed by me. Perhaps I shall be a column in the temple? Perhaps kosta50 whose testimony on the desire to be transparent in Christ will be a column, too?

More than plausible, to me.

And perhaps you, Quix, will be one whose personality remains in flux (albeit a good flux) as you dwell in the Paradise of God?

I still have a great deal of difficulty believing that even a 100% transparent column believer will have their personality obliterated. Makes absolutely no Biblical sense, to me. But I can more than agree that I don't happen to know everything about such things! LOL. We shall see.

Will Peter's Personality be a rainbow hued high volume glorious set of gems in God's right hand play-ground vs John the Beloved's being a totally transparent crystal chandelier? Plausible, I suppose.

But personally, I am confident that GOD ALMIGHTY, HIS SON, HIS SPIRIT DELIGHT THOROUGHLY IN JOHN'S 100% DEVOTED-LEAN-ON-CHRIST'S-BREAST LOVE AND BURROWING INTO GOD. And I suspect that 100% of those and other aspects of John's peronality will be glorified, embellished, multiplied, enriched, enlivened, expanded IN HEAVEN AND ETERNITY vs . . . transparentized into oblivion.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. - I Cor 2:9

We'll see...

INDEED. PRAISE HIS NAME IN ALL RESPECTS AND CASES REGARDLESS.

12,751 posted on 04/15/2007 6:54:55 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD!)
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To: Quix
Thank you so much for your engaging and thoughtful post! I was contemplating a detailed reply but it seems to me that you have discerned it quite beautifully and succinctly when you said:

GOD’S NATURE IS UNCHANGEABLE. His NATURE and what HE DOES are NOT IDENTICAL constructs, sets, realities


12,782 posted on 04/15/2007 9:40:47 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Quix
I think Scripture indicates He delights in creating and hiding things for us to discover.

Hooray! Yes He does!

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing:
but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
~Proverbs 25:2

12,818 posted on 04/16/2007 2:19:14 AM PDT by .30Carbine
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