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To: Quix; annalex
What is and what is not idolatry we tell you -- you don't tell us.

Which . . . sort of emphasizes and illustrates the traditional, entrenched, instutitionalized, magicstericalized, fossilized . . . meaning of PONTIFICAL. Or is it simply instituationalized pride?

Q,

You are in no position to judge the mind of a Catholic. Annalex is expressing a truism. Why do you insist on "KNOWING" the mind of the Catholic - that we worship Mary? Because we kneel before a statue of Mary? Well, Jews kneeled before David, offering him "worship". This external sign, in of itself, does not mean one is worshiping another as God. The Scriptures note (in the same passage where it says David is "worshiped") that subsequent sacrifices were offered - to God alone. That is the distinction, Q. Sacrifice is the ONLY external thing that can really tell another what he thinks who is God. Sacrifice is offered to God alone. Thus, if the Catholic offered sacrifice to Mary, you'd be correct in your statement. However, observing a Catholic asking for intercessionary prayer, or a Catholic speaking to Mary in prayer is NOT worship offered to God alone.

As such, it you would be better served to take Annalex's advice, since you are not in a position to read another's mind - and we certainly do not offer sacrifice to Mary.

Regards

12,584 posted on 04/13/2007 7:34:58 PM PDT by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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To: jo kus
I don't recall saying anything about reading someone's mind nor indicating that I had.

But Scripture as well as common sense makes a clear distinction between what we as humans say and what we as humans DO.

It is a VERY legitimate aspect of such discussions. Pretneding otherwise, is utter nonsense. Pretending otherwise ONLY when it suits one's perspective is duplicitous, hypocritical and transparently . . . less than Christ-like, imho.

Y'all accuse Protesties of saying one thing and doing another quite frequently. Guess that's only a one way street authorized by the magicsterical for travel ONLY by RC's. The shoe never fits the other foot. The other side of the coin is never considered. And use of mirrors on that topic, field are cardinal sins.

Tough tacos. I plan to continue to note that actions speak louder than words, whenever it feels fitting.

When a given body posture; a given tone of voice; a given word choice; a given facial expression; a given look in the eyes all speak loudly to me of adoration or veneration over the line into UNBiblical worship, I'll, by God's Grace, continue to note same.

Thankfully, I have a LOT of years of experience in Buddhist etc. Asian countries where idol worship is clearly over the line of the Biblical standard. I'm not just comparing apples to . . . nothing.

Also, thankfully, I have a robust amount of experience with a diverse and signinficant number of RC's who didn't sound like, walk like, waddle like, float like, quack like, swim like, fly like Mary-olaters. They had strong affections for Mary and crossed many lines I wouldn't toward Mary but still seemed to realize and relate to here much more authentically as Christ's mother, period--without any Mary-olatry. So, it's not as though I have NO Biblically kosher RC's to compare behavior on.

And, BTW, it's not as though I'm not trained in observing human behavior and making fair-minded, accurate assessments of same. I am--with the highest of marks & affirmations about same by my profs.

In summary--yeah--for an uncertain percentage of RC's Mary is UNBiblically idolized, worshipped. That's a clear fact. What percentage, I don't know. Any is too many.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Faulty mariology = faulty Christology.

Dividing out the overtly identical portions results in:

Faulty Mary-ology = faulty Christ-ology

Leaving very plainly and overtly:

MARY = CHRIST

Very straight forward. Very simple logic. Very simple fact. Very simply true for those with such in their hearts and spirits.

That's simple enough for my math skills.

12,592 posted on 04/13/2007 11:38:00 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD!)
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