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To: fortheDeclaration
From Hebrew 11:8-19 we have Abrahams walk of faith that showed that he had believed what God said (Gen.15:6)

And there you have it. One's faith shown by their works. Without works of love, you have dead faith, worthless for salvation. Without faith, you cannot be pleasing to God. Really, you haven't shown how we are saved by faith alone, and James quite clearly says we are not saved by faith alone.

end of story.

Regards

12,099 posted on 03/27/2007 5:31:55 AM PDT by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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To: jo kus
From Hebrew 11:8-19 we have Abrahams walk of faith that showed that he had believed what God said (Gen.15:6) And there you have it. One's faith shown(emphasis added) by their works. Without works of love, you have dead faith, worthless for salvation. Without faith, you cannot be pleasing to God. Really, you haven't shown how we are saved by faith alone, and James quite clearly says we are not saved by faith alone. end of story.

No, one's faith is shown by his works, but it is not the works that save them, it is the faith that saves them, the works only show that faith.

If the faith is dead, then men cannot see it.

So, what James is saying matches what Paul is saying, but James is saying a faith to be seen must be seen by works, but Paul is saying that the faith that saves is without works.

In Heb.11 we see that faith that saved Abraham in Gen.15 (without works-Rom.4) grow into a more intimate relationship with God (friend of God-James 2).

Salvation is an event,(1Cor.1:18) growth is a process.(2Pe.3:18)

Works are rewarded at the judgement seat of Christ and there will be dead works that will receive no rewards (1Cor.3).

He that worketh not but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

So clear even a Roman Catholic can understand it-but refuses to.

12,100 posted on 03/27/2007 5:51:01 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (For what saith the scripture? (Rom.4:3))
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To: jo kus
Your own RCC NAB states in a footnote the following regarding James 2:14-26

The theme of these verses is the relationship of faith and works(deeds). It has been argued that the teaching here contradicts that of Paul (see espically Rom.4,5-6). The problem can only be understood if the different viewpoints of the two authors are seen. Paul argues against those who claim to participate in God's salvation because of their good deeds as well as because they have committed themselves to trust in God through Jesus Christ(Pauls concept of faith). Paul certainly understands, however the implications of true faith for a life of love and generosity (see Gal.5,6,13-15) The author of James is well aware that that proper conduct can only come about with an authentic commitment to God in faith....(P.1398).

In other words, according to your own RCC bible, salvation is by faith without works, works show that one has faith (James), they add nothing to the faith.

12,106 posted on 03/27/2007 8:35:36 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (For what saith the scripture? (Rom.4:3))
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