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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; annalex; jo kus
I don't know why she would escape Judgment. Even within the construct, she could simply be adjudicated innocent on all counts. This line would also seem problematic with all the scripture on the Judgment (i.e., no exceptions).

But her assumption would be exactly that adjudication. Having received particular judgment upon her death, she was absolved of everything and assumed to heaven. we also believe that all the Saints of the Church are in heaven and not in an intermediate state.

If she was without sin then she is guilty of nothing, and needs no pardon. Propensity for sin is not sin. Propnesity towards sin implies fault in our nature which leads to (bodily) corurption and death. She could only resist her propensity by cleaving to God, but she couldn't change her mortal nature.

I think the problem arises with the dogma of Immaculate Conception, for if she were born with the same nature as Eve (pre-Fall) all she had to do is not sin to become immortal. Which is why the Catholic Church is silent on her death. From the Orthodox point of view, her death is certain, for it is ordained "that men die once and then judgment," and there is no reason to doubt her assumption given the belief that she resisted sin.

By the way, +Paul obviously was not of that opinion, for he would have qualified his statement that all have sinned. In other words, +Paul did not think mary was pure and blameless.

11,762 posted on 03/23/2007 10:17:06 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; annalex; jo kus
Still having internet problems, folks. Sorry for the delay.

FK: "I don't know why she would escape Judgment. Even within the construct, she could simply be adjudicated innocent on all counts. This line would also seem problematic with all the scripture on the Judgment (i.e., no exceptions)."

But her assumption would be exactly that adjudication. Having received particular judgment upon her death, she was absolved of everything and assumed to heaven. we also believe that all the Saints of the Church are in heaven and not in an intermediate state.

But what does this mean about the other two Biblical assumptions? It would seem to put Elijah and Enoch on a par with Mary. That is, on a higher "tier" than the Apostles, etc. Or, are you saying that since the Saints are in the same place, that assumption really isn't that big a deal, but more just as one means to an end?

By the way, +Paul obviously was not of that opinion, for he would have qualified his statement that all have sinned. In other words, +Paul did not think Mary was pure and blameless.

Yes, absolutely. I could not possibly agree more. :) Paul elsewhere said that Jesus was sinless, but I don't see where he had room for any other exceptions. And, he was the first to include himself in with the rest of us. :)

12,184 posted on 04/02/2007 11:04:43 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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