Jo: I would presume because we are as one man in Adam, just as we are as one man in Christ. We are born in sin through Adam and reborn in grace through Christ
So, if you grandparents committed something that caused disgrace to the family, your parents, you and your children and grand children, and all your generations should be disgraced because you are all "one in them?"
Don't you see, these are neatly minted phrases that sound right but are terribly off the target.
If Adam's sin caused him and all subsequent generations to be disgraced, then Christ's loving sacrifice should have restored all subsequent generations to Grace. But we still sin and we still die. Why?
Because, as Kolokotronis says, our ancestral sin changed not only our own nature, but the whole Creation, and made it corrupt.
Those who live in Christ are promised a new and ever-lasting life, in a world to come, a world that does not yet exist. In other words, everything that is corruptible (material) will be remade. The old house will be torn down, razed with the ground and a new one built.
So, as through one man sin entered the world and through sin death, the same is not true in reverse – through one Man's sacrifice Grace re-entered the world but through Grace sin and death did not disappear.
Why does a parent punish their child?
That's not the right question, Jo! The right question is why does a parent punish all future generations for something only his children did?
The answer is simple – what they did was not just disobedience; it was a life-changing mistake. If we turned from innocent children into poisonous snakes, and all our children were poisonous snakes, we would be cast out of the house and all our generations along with them.
Our sin is poison that has no place in the House of God, for we are no longer the children God created, but something utterly incompatible with God. Thus, the Orthodox hold that it is our altered, fallen, disgraced nature that has condemned us and that continues to condemn us. Baptismal Grace does not make us sinless and immortal. We are still poisonous snakes.
Just as Adam's sin was a conscious exercise of his will to disobey, the reverse must be a conscious exercise of the will to submit and obey. But that has to come from the heart and not from fear. In order to be saved, we must defeat our own fallen nature, die unto the world, die unto ourselves as poisonous snakes, before we can be reborn, indeed re-created as children of God.
Concupiscence and all that comes along with our poisonous nature is only a manifestation of it and as such irrelevant. Eliminating evil and lustful thoughts does not make us less poisonous, less sinful, less mortal. It has to include our hole life, our pride, our arrogance, our love for the world, money, even our own family. F or none of us is ready to give everything to God. Of that I am sure of.
Concentrating on the manifestations of our fallen nature and not on overcoming all of our fallen nature is like seeing one tree in the forest and believing that going around it is finding a way out of the forest.
But then there is another question of the world yet to come. I presume that we will enjoy the same freedom that God gave Adam and Eve, freedom to choose. It is that freedom that corrupted the whole Creation by Adam's and Eve's choices, and thus we have the possibility of the new world becoming corurpt and fallen again.
But, then, as Agrarian once reminded me (although woithout references), the choices in the world to come shall only be good choices, so the possibility of another Fall will not exist. But, then, neither will freedom. The question that inevitably comes to mind is: why didn't we have it that way from the beginning?
The excellent book that covers this topic in detail is "Free Choice in St. Maximus the Confessor," published by St. Tikhon's Seminary Press. The author (J.P. Farrell) wrote the book as a doctoral dissertation at Oxford under the supervision of Bp. Kallistos (Ware)
No. However, Scriptures tell us that we are one in Adam and one in Christ in different ways. That is why Christ's redemptive work is effective for ALL men. Again, there is a difference between Adam/Christ and the typical man. One of us does not represtent all of humanity.
If it makes you happier, the Catholic church considers original sin a state of exitence, a lack of God. Surely, you understand that we cannot enter heaven WITHOUT God. Thus, the state of original sin prevents one from entering heaven. Not because of what they have done - necessarily - but on their state of existence upon their birth.
But, then, as Agrarian once reminded me (although woithout references), the choices in the world to come shall only be good choices, so the possibility of another Fall will not exist. But, then, neither will freedom. The question that inevitably comes to mind is: why didn't we have it that way from the beginning?
That is interesting. The angels are said to have made an irrevocable decision - yet they maintain free will. I think we will be in the same boat when we enter heaven. As to why we didn't have it from the beginning, I again ask you why do we discipline our children? The Scriptures tell us that we discipline them to teach them. How could Adam learn about perseverance or humility or forbearance otherwise?
Regards
I would fully agree that in the next world for the saved, that there will be no possibility of another Fall and the only choices we will have will be good ones. Sin is intolerable in Heaven. Put it this way, is the freedom to sin actually a freedom that you would want to have?
I don't worry about my level of freedom in Heaven because, without sin, I see it as being better than now. Truth sets us truly free, and in Heaven that's all that's going to be around us. I have given thought to the question "will I still be me (without my sin)"? But I don't worry about it because the faithful man spends his whole life ridding himself of sin in the first place. Heaven is 100% God-given success in that. It's a can't lose. With no tears in Heaven, I figure no person has ever asked to leave. :)
One possible reason for God not to simply have created us into Heaven in the first place was to give us the experience of sin in the world, so that we could appreciate what we have in God and His love for us. Perhaps Adam and Eve didn't understand the situation they enjoyed because they had nothing to compare it to. But whatever the real reason is, I think God DID have a reason and I will look forward to learning it. :)