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To: Kolokotronis; annalex; Mad Dawg; Quix; HarleyD; kawaii; kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg
The idea of Panagia being the New Eve is easily explained. As Eve introduced Adam to the occasion of his Sin, the results of which cut us off as a race from fulfilling our created purpose, so Panagia's role in the Incarnation brought the New Adam to the world and through Him our potential to fulfill our created purpose was restored and the curse of the Sin of Adam removed.

How would you characterize Panagia's role to merit her place in the Church? The disaster that Eve initiated was through her own choice. So, is Mary's "position" as the New Eve really based on her "right choice" to bear Christ? Is that why she is lifted up so high? If that is correct, then why is she higher than any of the other many Biblical figures who heard God's word and obeyed? I'm sure you are aware of our position that Mary was simply informed by the angel as to what was going to take place. I think that matches much better with other scriptural examples because I cannot think of one where God made His intentions clear (via weight of decree) and "that thing" did not happen. God specifically prepared and ordained that Mary would say "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word".

As +Irenaeos of Lyon wrote, "...the knot of Eve's disobedience was loosed through the obedience of Mary; for what Eve, a virgin, bound by her unbelief, that Mary, a virgin, unloosed by her faith."

Perhaps this answers my earlier question right here. This statement really seems to imply that "BUT FOR" Mary's obedience Christ would not have come into the world. I suppose if that was actually true, then you could count me among the most rabid Mary venerators in the world. :) However, from our point of view, the only "BUT FOR" was God's sovereign decision to send His Son to save us.

As Eve was our original mother in the flesh through whose disobedience we lost our potential for theosis and became bound to death, so Panagia, the New Eve, is our spiritual mother through whose obedience our deliverance was accomplished through Christ.

Is this co-redemptrix? No, not at all. Just as it was Adam's Sin which cursed mankind, so it was Christ's sacrifice which redeemed us. It wasn't Eve's sin, or Panagia's obedience which effected the curse or our salvation.

Well, in the first part you give Eve partial attribution for the Fall. In the second part you appear to take it away. Perhaps you are saying that Eve was "there" and participated in the Fall, yet Adam gets all the blame. AND, Mary was "there" to give birth to Jesus, and He gets all the credit for our salvation. If that's correct then I suppose I could hang with you on this point. (Aren't I a nice guy? :) However, if Mary, as New Eve, is a mere catalyst, then I still don't understand her elevation. It appears you are trying to have it both ways. On the one hand Mary is to be given all credit and honor for her obedience, yet Eve isn't blamed at all, Biblically, for her disobedience.

At any rate, I'm glad we see eye to eye on co-redemptrix and the Immaculate Conception. I know that on most matters of Mariology that my general beef is much more with the Latins. Now if you'd just drop the sinless thing ...... :)

11,479 posted on 03/19/2007 9:03:34 PM PDT by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; Mad Dawg; Quix; HarleyD; kawaii; kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg
why is she higher than any of the other many Biblical figures who heard God's word and obeyed?

Because the word she received asked more of her. I am not aware of another mother of God, or mother of another god.

11,516 posted on 03/20/2007 9:53:46 AM PDT by annalex
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