Of course. This is not attitude, this is the very truth. You want Christianity, come to the Church. If you go to the Bible first, fine, but it will lead you to the Church anyway.
The Bible will lead one to God's Church, yes. But to the RCC subset of it, no. The growth of "Bible-believing" churches worldwide is one example. The RCC is another because no one would be fit to become a Catholic based only on a reading of the Bible. Of all the converts to Catholicism, I would imagine that only a small handful would honestly claim to convert because of only their readings of scripture, without Catholic interpretation. They would say that Tradition won them over.
FK: "If 15 meant Mary then there's only one offspring,"
Correct, only one offspring, Christ, crushes the serpent.
Here is the passage:
Gen 3:13-16 : 13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate." 14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, "Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals!You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life. 15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband,and he will rule over you."
If 15 is read your way then there is only enmity between Mary and satan, as OPPOSED to all other people (or at least believers). Do you think satan has enmity toward you? I know for sure he has enmity toward me. I also toward him. The woman's "seed" refers to man generally, and Christ specifically. There is no Biblical evidence that satan went after Mary especially, over and above the way he went after any other believer. I would expect to see such evidence if there is only enmity between satan and Mary.
FK: "... FROM NOW ON, Christ will have enmity for the spawn of satan?"
Yes. Why does it not make sense? Is Satan real today?
If offspring ONLY means Christ, then that strains Christ's pre-existence. I thought it was generally accepted that satan was already banished at this point. I.e., there was already enmity between Christ and satan, including any spawn. It would be superfluous for God to announce it here. If, however, offspring includes all men, or all believers, then that matches better because we know that satan has enmity toward all of us and acts upon it. God could have put an impenetrable barrier between satan and men. Clearly He did not with Adam and Eve, and this announcement confirmed that He would also not do so with the rest of mankind.
FK: "... in verse 13, "the woman" meant Eve, in verse 15 "the woman" meant Mary, and in verse 16 "the woman" meant Eve again..."
As is clear each time from the verses themselves; they indeed reflect the symmetry between Eve and Mary.
There is no symmetry present because there is no comparison made or implied. Look at the flow of the passage without using the Catholic lens. There is no way in the universe a straight reading of this scripture leads anyone to think of Mary for a moment. The idea was manufactured later in order to glorify Mary. While many Jews certainly blew it on recognizing Christ, they were supposed to be looking for a Messiah. I'm not aware they were ever looking for a Mary figure. That would mean that every single OT Jew, especially the righteous, got it all wrong on this prophecy. How many other OT prophecies were completely missed by the whole world until the RCC came along?
THANKS.
GREAT, ACCURATE, BIBLICAL points.
Thanks.
The Bible will lead to either Orthodoxy or Catholicism, or at a stretch to the pre Chalcedon churches such as the Armenian or Ethiopian churches. Obviously, there is not enough in the scripture to differentiate between nuances of Christian practice and theology between the latter. It will not lead to Protestantism, because Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura are not scriptural principles.
The numerous well-educated converts to Catholicism such as Marcus Grodi, Scott Hahn, Stephen Ray, Tim Staples will argue scripture with you and never refer to any tradition. Now, it is true that the Divine Liturgy is what ultimately converts, but that is because all conversions come by the will of the Father, to who the Liturgy speaks.
If 15 is read your way then there is only enmity between Mary and satan, as OPPOSED to all other people (or at least believers). Do you think satan has enmity toward you? I know for sure he has enmity toward me. I also toward him. The woman's "seed" refers to man generally, and Christ specifically. There is no Biblical evidence that satan went after Mary especially, over and above the way he went after any other believer. I would expect to see such evidence if there is only enmity between satan and Mary.
The woman's "seed" refers to man generally, and Christ specifically indeed. But it is Christ alone who crushes the serpent, so that particular reference is to Him alone. But since Christ is referred by way of the woman, "your offspring", we have to conclude that while the entire passage speaks to the women generally, it also speaks specifically of Eve (of course) and of Mary. It is not coincidental that Christ refers to His mother "woman" throughout the scripture.
If offspring ONLY means Christ, then that strains Christ's pre-existence
The "offspring", like we agreed, refers to man in general, and Christ in partucular, but the crushing of the serpent refers to Christ alone, hence that reference is to Mary alone as His mother.
There is no way in the universe a straight reading of this scripture leads anyone to think of Mary for a moment. The idea was manufactured later in order to glorify Mary.
The reading of the passage alone, without the witness of the Gospels, would indeed not indicate Mary, -- this is why the Jews do not see her there (neither they see Christ). But since the gospel tells of Him Who crushed the serpent, we gain the meaning not plainly seen. This is rather typical of how a Christian reads the Old Testament in general. It is not a Catholic mariological lense, it is Christian and therefore Catholic lense.
The notion that the symmetry in question was a mariological invention is not accurate. Veneration of Mary was developed as one outcome of combating the christological heresies of Nestorius, but the symmetry is noticed by the earliest of the Church fathers:
Eve, who was a virgin and undefiled, having conceived the word of the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the power of the Highest would overshadow her: wherefore also the Holy Thing begotten of her is the Son of God; and she replied, 'Be it unto me according to your word.' " Luke 1:38 And by her has He been born, to whom we have proved so many Scriptures refer, and by whom God destroys both the serpent and those angels and men who are like him; but works deliverance from death to those who repent of their wickedness and believe upon Him.(Dialogue with Trypho, Ch 100, St. Justin Martyr, AD 100-165)
This is very true. I remember reading Robert Novak when he said he converted because he was drawn to the rituals of the church. He admired the saints and statues and incense.
Since he came from a Jewish background, I would say Novak traded one sense of tradition for another.