"I find it interesting that when Augustine says things you don't like, he is a late comer with only regional appeal, and besides, he took back everything that you didn't like. But when he says things you do like, he is "Blessed Augustine"."
No, not the Latins, FK; that's we Orthodox who do that.
A: " and tell me if this reminds you of Protestantism.
FK: Well of course it doesn't, but why should it?
I suppose I'm curious why those passages from the Fathers don't remind you of Protestantism. On their face that is precisely what they describe.
"My point was to note that Protestant ideas DID exist from early on, and that the Reformers did not make everything up, as is so often the accusation from Apostolics."
Heresy has indeed been around from the beginning. We see it even in Acts. But surely you aren't saying that the first of the reformers had access to information that no one has seen about these proto-protestants ever since? If you find the time, make a study of the heresies of the first two centuries of Christianity. You'll find nothing you want to identify with, FK. Personally, I sincerely doubt that the early Reformers looked to early heretics for inspiration. The doctrine of Sola Scriptura forms a much better basis for Protestantism than anything Gnostics or Montanists or the like believed. I understand that the creation of a sort of historical continuity is important to answer the criticisms leveled by The Church that Protestantism is an innovation, but that sort of historical exegesis is modern post hoc propter hoc arguing and ends up tying you to people you really don't want to be identified with. Stick with Sola Scriptura and blame us Greeks for the "error" of the first 1500 years of Church history.
I was speaking as in the whole. There certainly are parts. For example, the passages speak of those who don't hold the same views on the Eucharist, those who don't follow the bishop as Christ followed the Father, and those who don't follow the presbytery as the Apostles. To these I would say "sure".
However, the passages also speak against those who abstain from prayer, those who do not heed the prophets or the Gospels, those without reverence for the deaconate as an institution of God, and they condemn anyone doing something without the knowledge of the bishop as being in service to satan. Since I pray, I heed, I recognize the deaconate, and I don't serve satan as a practice, I know that none of these things apply to me.
Personally, I sincerely doubt that the early Reformers looked to early heretics for inspiration.
I'm sure that's true. I was really more talking about unpopular views among the established clergy. Two recent examples we've been talking about are Augustine on predestination, and Jerome on the Dueterocanonicals.
Stick with Sola Scriptura and blame us Greeks for the "error" of the first 1500 years of Church history.
LOL! Point taken.