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To: kosta50; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; xzins; 1000 silverlings; blue-duncan; Blogger; ...
There is no indication whatsoever that laws governing burnt offerings were temporary. The only reason God made a New Covenant was because the Jews went back and forth worshiping idols until the Babylonian captivity, not because animal sacrifices were something 'temporary' or 'foreshadowing' anything.

This thread has been instructive. I was unaware the Eastern Orthodox do not believe Christ's sacrifice was "foreshadowed" in the Old Testament.

What does the word "sacrifice" mean and why is Jesus Christ called "the lamb slain from the foundation of the world?" (Rev. 13:8).

Perhaps the disbelief in the predestined, completed sacrifice of Christ is what leads to your church's lack of assurance and why "being saved is a life-long process" instead of the "once for all time" redemption of Christ's sheep.

It's this kind of material that doesn't allow even a five-year-old to read and understand the Bible. I submit that NO ONE understands the Bible, let alone logically comprehend it.

No one?

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." -- 2 Timothy 3:16-17

It seems to me that God did not want us to 'understand' Him very well at all.

What a diabolical method of keeping people ignorant of the truth -- tell them it's indecipherable.

Read Hebrews, Kosta. It's all there and it's knowable.

"Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." -- Hebrews 10:9-18

Now we may debate whether the "for all" means all men everywhere or all believers, but that does not negate the fact Christ died once to pay for all the sins of His sheep, and thus according to God's promise He will remember them no more.

We have been redeemed.

"For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." -- 1 Corinthians 6:20

This is what I taught my five-year-olds -- that they were bought with a heavenly price and that their minds and hearts and bodies belong to God.

By the grace of God, they understood.

10,103 posted on 02/12/2007 9:27:49 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50; irishtenor

If the scriptures are not understandable by individuals, then there is no benefit for individuals to read them.

All things considered, I would really rather be a biblical christian. If I have to choose between following religious leaders removed from Christ by time and distance or following the words of the Apostles, I'd rather follow the Apostles who lived with Jesus and were commissioned by Him.


10,109 posted on 02/12/2007 9:53:03 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; xzins
There are many verses in the bible showing that God's word is easy to understand. What is needed is a little diligence on the part of the disciple.

Joshua 1:8. This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

John 8:31

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

10,112 posted on 02/12/2007 10:17:53 AM PST by 1000 silverlings
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50; HarleyD; Forest Keeper
This thread has been instructive. I was unaware the Eastern Orthodox do not believe Christ's sacrifice was "foreshadowed" in the Old Testament

John 5:46

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

5:47

But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

10,120 posted on 02/12/2007 10:34:16 AM PST by 1000 silverlings
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; xzins; 1000 silverlings; blue-duncan
I was unaware the Eastern Orthodox do not believe Christ's sacrifice was "foreshadowed" in the Old Testament

To the contrary. Unless I specify something as Orthodox teaching (I usually reference such statements), I am merely expressing my opinion. I am not an official of the Orthodox Church, and I make no such claim.

The EOC does teach that the OT is the "foreshadowing" of Christ. I am observing, however, that there is nothing 'temporary' about Judaic practices described in the OT, albeit there may be a hyperbolic 'foreshadowing' but not of burnt offerings.

No one? "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, ... That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." -- 2 Timothy 3:16-17

Notice the word 'perfect.' So far I see many people reading the scripture in many ways, none of which seems perfect because there is a lot of discord on what was read. A Presbyterian colleague of mine once told me "we all pray and worship imperfectly." Why is that? because are rendered 'perfect' by reading scripture (whatever Scripture may mean, because not even that is settled among Christians)

Why, we don't read the Bible the same way even as Christians, is it any wonder the Jews read the OT even more differently than we do?!

Read Hebrews, Kosta. It's all there and it's knowable

Read the Bible, Dr. E and tell me if one has seen God or not. Savce for one verse in Exodus, the Ot generally says that men have seen God, even face to face (and lived). +John and +Luke emphatically deny it. Which is it?

By the grace of God, they understood

I don't mean to be disrespectful, Dr. E, but the age of reason is sevenish, and that's a stretch. We don't even understand everything about our own world; let alone God.

10,171 posted on 02/12/2007 9:27:25 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50; HarleyD; Gamecock; xzins; 1000 silverlings; blue-duncan; Blogger
Great post Dr. E.!

Heb. 10:10 : By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Now we may debate whether the "for all" means all men everywhere or all believers, ...

We may not need to even go that far. I originally read "once for all" to be as in "once and for all" or "for all time". Strong's has "once for all" being one term (ephapax - [2178]) and it appears to only refer to time.

10,726 posted on 02/16/2007 3:16:02 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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