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I would agree with Kierkegaard among others that works are largely internal -- or the part that "counts" is. And that means that actually on the ground, we may not always know if a work is "good".

It's funny, the only time I ever think about whether a work is good or not is when I'm deciding to do something I REALLY don't want to do. :) That's pretty much the only type of measurement I think I've used.

I know some very mentally ill people. Sometimes I see what I think must be an effort at real love and charity on their part. Usually it's a manipulative destructive controlling disaster! But I think they were giving it their best shot.

I agree. I think if they are of the elect, then it would still "count" as good, even if they are not formal believers due to incapacity.

But, you know, when I get up and haul the sorry carcass out of bed and, while the coffee drips, read the day's psalms and Scripture selections, over time it seems that good things happen, the first of which is that the next day I want to get up and do it again, ...

That happens to me too. God's graces do build on themselves.

First, the good work is only good by grace. My motivations are complicated and NEVER pure. My execution is ditto. The work is sort of formally good: it is good to "pray". Whatever good there is in my wanting to do it and the doing itself, is a gift.

I basically agree. I mean, I think it's possible to have a pure motivation, but of course, even if that happens, it is as you say, a gift.

Now, viewed (as IF) from the perspective of the Eternal, this was all foredoomed. But while I can imagine, very inadequately, that perspective, here on the ground there are phenomena to describe in the Christian life. And I have tried to show (pedantically, the mania hasn't kicked in yet) how I describe them, while bearing in mind that the description is provisional and inadequate, albeit conventional for RCs (I think.)

I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what the bottom line is. :)

Forest Keeper, as far as the severely mentally handicapped, we simply don't know what their full capacity is. If faith is the gift we know it to be, the God who gives faith could give the measure of faith (in whatever form it is needed) to one who has no discernable cognitive abilities. Look at infants and the words of David, Jeremiah, and the gospels concerning John the Baptist. John was clearly God's elect. John leaped in his mother's womb at the presence of the infant Christ (in his own mother's womb). We would probably have said that such faith wasn't possible for one so young. Now, after studying the issue, I leave it to God's providence in full and do not discount the possibility.

I'm styaing away form active participation on the thread. I HTINK what I was saying is that we both say that there's a kind of cumulative or building effec tin good works" I pray today, it makes it more likely, less of a,"Oh goodness, I guess I'd better go pray," thing to pray tomorrow. And I think that's about all that's important about our use of the word "merit". A good work IS one step in establishing a good habit. And a good habit is a good thing. The fadt that we realize that every important aspect of it is gift, does not take away from the good habit being a kind of "Reward" for doing a chunk of good works (of a particular kind.) And Even it is a step on the way of salvation, and in that sense salvific.

But I can't imagine any serious Catholic, IQ above 110, having spent more than a year or so thinking and praying about it and having had his personal wake-up call from God, every thinking that he "deserved" to be saved because of good stuff he'd done.