Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
"This part of your sentence doesn't work. Can you restate it?"
How's this:
"Not at all. I assert that saying, without more, that the statement "The Son is the Father (or vice versa), is simply not true" displays an alarming lack of understanding of Trinitarian theology and which statement can otherwise be explained by holding a belief in tritheism. Given the Creed, is there another way to explain your denial?
Therefore, the Son is not, never has been, and never will be, the Father.
Any belief to the contrary is some form of monarchianism, whether Sabellian or modalist. This should also answer 7741.
I do deny that the Son is the Father. I do not retreat from that.
However, I will shortly retreat from this discussion. It's Saturday, and my calendar calls.
"who has an IQ of 95 or above, who upon hearing the phrase "mother of God" concluded that Mary ante-dated God or was in any way"
I don't know whether I qualify with the IQ requirement but as a child I heard my grandfather yell "mother of God" while holding his thumb up when he clipped the end of his thumb, chopping wood. I thought for a while that was odd that he called his thumb that.
I can accept that. At least it is a direct answer to the question.
But if the Father and the Son are the same person, then the Father would also be incarnate, as would be the Spirit.
Was the Father Crucified?
Is the Father speaking in the following verse:
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. (Revelation 1:18 KJV)
Rotflol!
Excellent verse. The Father is not the Son.
To assert otherwise is to teach a heretical doctrine.
But the question is did you think your father's thumb was older than God? When I was very young that might have been a real question for me.
I'll be out for most of the rest of the day myself.
I just heard my wife say "Fine."
And which of the three definitions are you using in your assault on us?
Loud Sigh
"I don't know whether I qualify with the IQ requirement but as a child I heard my grandfather yell "mother of God" while holding his thumb up when he clipped the end of his thumb, chopping wood. I thought for a while that was odd that he called his thumb that."
That's good, bd! :)
" Excellent verse. The Father is not the Son.
To assert otherwise is to teach a heretical doctrine."
Is the Creed heresy here?:
"...one in essence with the Father...."
Have the Methodists scrapped the Creed, Padre?
"But the question is did you think your father's thumb was older than God?"
I have always thought my grandfather was older than God. Now, I am reaping the whirlwind as my granddaughters think I am in that class and when I try to get up in the morning my joints affirm their belief.
Nope. We have interpreted it correctly.
The Father is not the Son.
"Essence" speaks of the Godhead. In the unity of the Godhead there are 3 persons (hypostases, if you will.) These three persons are Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
The one divine essence refers to the Godhead.
The path is full of thorns.
Your approach is not helping your testimony.
DO we have a deal?
Somebodyh! Call the papers!
See my previous post. The Godhead is the expression of the one essence.
It is wrong either to divide the essence or confuse the Persons.
To meld (confuse) the Father with the Son is to engage in some form of Monarchianism.
""Essence" speaks of the Godhead. In the unity of the Godhead there are 3 persons (hypostases, if you will.) These three persons are Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."
Part of the problem is in using the word "person" for hypostasis; that's not what it means and its always a mistake to attribute human characteristics to God.
Try looking at "Against the Arians" by +Athanasius the Great. It is a marvelous work on the Son in relation to the Father and the Trinity. It is thoroughly "orthodox" and in sync with the Creed. Its very long, but there is a pretty good paper on it presented at a Baptist seminary which you both might find interesting (pdf format):
http://www.templebaptistseminary.edu/alumni/jones.pdf.
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