No, but I hope to. It's only for men.
I would like to visit some of the 1,000-year-old monsteries in Kosovo before they are destroyed, like Dechani
Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
Indeed. (pinging blue duncan)
Or the absurd idea that the Lord didn't didn't really mean it when He said, "This is My Body," and "This is My Blood."
(Or that Christians were arrested for aledged cannibalism by Roman persecutors didn't beleive it either. Equally absurd.)
It's really quite simple. From time to time I go to Mass at my parent's church, this weekend I was at my grandmother's church, usually I go to my church. These are different buildings in different locations, with different parishoners and priests. But we are all members of the Church.
Okay. So let's be clear. You can say we commit idolatry and worship Mary. We can say we don't. And that's the end of the converstion because the distinction which seems critical to us is mere hairsplitting to you.
So what's the purpose of the conversation? We just sit here while you charge us with breaking the first and second commandments and then we all say, "Have a nice day (or not)," and go our ways?
Even after I've thought about it, it doesn't seem to be hairsplitting to me. I know the difference between a ceqture and the Creator even if y'all don't think I do.
The way some people here haul out lengthy quotes from authors I've never heard of, there seems to me to be right much veneration (if not worship) going on among some of the Protestant brethren. "It is so because So-and-so says it is; looky here." And, just for completeness, any claims that these authors were quoted for their clarity of expression rather than their authority will be considered mere hairsplitting and parsing by me. (I'm kidding while trying to make a point.)
And, no, I think some idolaters talk about their images as though something or somebody were there. Certainly the ashtaroth and herms and what not were considered intrinisically sacred.
"We do have a lot of Scripture detailing what traits and gifts a leader should possess, but the monobishphoric structure did not develop until the second century."
That's simply incorrect, WF. We have historical evidence of both +Ignatius and +Polycarp having been bishops, and called that, in the 1st century during the life of at least +John.
I think the clearest distinction of idolatry is mistaking the finite for the infinite.
Which would indicate some degree of what's in the subject's mind matters and that it can occur with pretty much any finite object, including even a Bible.
or as I attempted in my bad typing and worse proofing, confusing the difference between a creature and The Creator.
For most of us we look around and see youth, sex, beauty, power, money, the nation, a political system held in people's hearts in the place where we think God belongs. And we say, "Idolatry" but while we do think there's a soul-wounding effect of such disordered allegiance, we don't tend to think that there is a numenous thing, a small-g 'god', associated with that attribution of worth, that worth-ship.
So those who think we are idolaters and worshippers of false gods probably think we wound our souls by giving worship to Mary, who is NOT intrinsically divine. Would some think that we are in fact worshipping demons, I wonder? That is to say, do they think we are in some kind of communion or attempting some kind of communion with spiritual entities who are not playing for God's team but who, between now and the eschaton, have some power to wreak harm?
But to get back to your comment, yeah! And what should resonate in the hearts of each of us when the sola fide gang speaks is the EXCELLENT admonition NOT to worship to work of our hands. Proper Veneration for Scripture can be a great opportuniy to start worshipping one's own orthodoxy or Faithfulness in Bible Study or whatever. "Oh deliver me from my secret fault," (the one I've been doing for ever and am not even aware of ).
Is this the time where I tell everyone what my mother said when she read Timothy? Unconsciously paraphrasing Tertullian she said,"All those bishops -- and only one poor wife? Poor THING!" My Mom was maybe not a very holy woman but she was as funny as could be.
:)
I agree. That 6.6 quake you may have felt was my jaw dropping! Y'know, just when I thought I have seen everything on FR ... this one really threw me off.
Satan is very happy. He cleverly attacked the theology first. The master deciver made sure there were plent of alternative "Gospels" to go around, and ever since then has been popping up heresies and protests, reforms, what not, even among the brothers.
No, but I hope to. It's only for men.
I would like to visit some of the 1,000-year-old monsteries in Kosovo before they are destroyed, like Dechani
Good points. And it's not 20,000+ (add anoyther 10,000+ at least). "True faith," undergoing self-destruction!
The term Worship is from the old English weorthscipe meaning "esteem", "regard", "honour" and "respect","the condition of being worthy", "honour", "renown"
Merriam Webster indicates that Venerate is translated:
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion
Etymology: Latin veneratus, past participle of venerari, from vener-, venus love, charm
Let the reader decide
Your post reminded of another on a different thread some time ago.
The poster made the point that for Protestants "worship" has quite a broad definition - that can be applied to attitudes toward youth, sex, beauty, power, money as you said. So a Protestant can see "worship" in quite a very large range.
Whereas, "worship" means something quite specific and different in Catholicism.
Oh.
That's heart-breaking.
There is a difference in swearing allegiance to your nation and worshiping it.
Ah, St. Webster.
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