'The Nativity Story' Movie Problematic for Catholics, "Unsuitable" for Young Children

LifeSiteNews.com ^ | 12/4/2006 | John-Henry Westen

[Dr. Eckleburg]

You may, like Luther, doubt that the authority of the Bible came from the the Church

Luther knew, as should we all, that the authority of Scripture comes from the Holy Spirit.

[wmfights]

"And we keep telling you that it's not. Why can't you simply accept this as an honest answer? Those who try to tack the "Mary as Goddess" thing onto Catholics do so for purely dishonest polemical reasons--not because the criticism has any basis in fact. I hope you are not one of those people."
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As a Christian I worry about those that might get caught up in false doctrine. I see statues, people praying to Mary etc. and it sure looks like they've been taught to go somewhere other than the source of our salvation, Jesus. In times of trouble usually the first words out of my mouth are "JESUS help me..." not "oh Mary full of grace..."

[kosta50]

I will take your word for it. You have seen the movie, so I defer.

[Wallace T.]

Using the definition of superstition as cited in my previous post as a starting point (I don't agree with it, BTW), there is no more reason to consider a combination of Scripture and tradition (as defined by Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy) to be any more factual than sola Scriptura. The fact that, for example, the Council of Chalcedon defined the Second Person of the Trinity as being "wholly God or wholly man," does not make it an observable fact. It is true that this council defined the doctrine, but their definition does not make the doctrine true. If you assume that the members of this council were divinely inspired, then the question arises as how you would prove that they were so.

Both sola Scriptura and the Scripture/tradition position are objectively unprovable and thus, assuming the definition is valid, is superstition. Ultimately, it is a matter of which position (or for that matter, the position of Jews, Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, etc.) comports with one's presuppositions and which position is more reasonable, that is, more in agreement with observation and reason.

[kosta50]

Kosta--just curious. Have you seen the movie yet?

No I haen't. I was going by the impressions and comments of others who have.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

some of the most towering works of Christian theology and devotion were (written in Latin). Pity that the narrow attitude of some Protestants precludes them from ever picking them up.

How's this one?

TREATISE ON THE PREDESTINATION OF THE SAINTS
by Augustine

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I think the truth is far greater than the myth. God took a humble normal woman and placed her in extraordinary circumstances and she was an example to us all staying to the end watching Jesus save our worthless souls on the cross.

A resounding AMEN!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I prayed that they wouldn't be girls. Selfish, I know. Just knew I held a position of privilege and didn't want to let it go. :) And, anyway, God did answer my prayers.

Do you know how many of us dreamed of being the only girl among a family of boys? 8~)

[Antoninus]

As a Christian I worry about those that might get caught up in false doctrine. I see statues, people praying to Mary etc. and it sure looks like they've been taught to go somewhere other than the source of our salvation, Jesus. In times of trouble usually the first words out of my mouth are "JESUS help me..." not "oh Mary full of grace..."

Keep in mind, there are 1 billion plus Catholics in the world. The Catholic Faith is deep, wide, ancient and incredibily rich. We do not exclude people because they chose to ask the Saints to pray for them, just as we don't exclude people who ask their living friends and family to pray for them. Indeed, Catholics see no difference between the living Church here on Earth, and the Living Communion of Saints in Heaven. Both are available to intercede for us with Christ.

Of course, we absolutely would exclude anyone who taught that Mary or any of the Saints was greater than or equal to the Holy Trinity.

And don't worry--within the Catholic Church there is no lacking of true WORSHIP of Christ. If you have ever watched a traditional Tridentine Rite Mass, that fact would come forth loud and clear.

[adiaireton8]

No creature is sinless.

So trees and insects are not sinless? What about the angels Gabriel? Michael? Raphael?

-A8

[adiaireton8]

What Mormons believe has nothing to do with this discussion about Mary.

Yes is it does.

But you often fall back on the Mormons to stabilize any point you're trying to make. Perhaps you should find a Mormon and argue it with him.

Those are ad hominems, since they are about *me*, instead of about the truth or falsity of what I said.

-A8

[AlbionGirl]

However, when we are assembled around our God's throne in worship, I sometimes sense that our visible congregation is joining in praise with the church of all the ages. For "all live unto Him."

Me too.

Your tagline is wonderful. God bless and Godspeed your efforts.

[AlbionGirl]

Do you know how many of us dreamed of being the only girl among a family of boys? 8~)

Is a neener, neener, neener, allowed here? :)

I love my brothers fiercely ('cause that's how I love), and they love me too. It's good to be princess. :)

[adiaireton8]

know you say veneration, but from an outsiders perspective it looks like worship.

In the early Church, from an outsider's perspective it looked like Christians, in their Eucharist, were engaged in cannibalism.

So therefore, no one should take the Eucharist, or teach that we should take the Eucharist. Whenever outsiders misperceive what we are saying/doing, we must eliminate that doctrine/practice.

-A8

[xzins]

Not to be terribly difficult, but I'm not Lutheran. You assume an association that I don't.

Methodists trace through the Anglicans to the Old English Catholic Church which had its foot in the orthodox camp.

Most, however, when they say "C"atholic Church mean Roman Catholic.

Nonetheless, I still wouldn't say that they "wrote" it. Abingdon Press puts out a lot of books, but they don't write them.

[adiaireton8]

The bible says "she gave birth." That means that "she gave birth."

I agree. But the claim in question is not whether she gave birth, but whether she gave birth "exactly like" your birth and mine. And the Bible does not say that Christ's birth was "exactly like" your birth and mine.

Virgins are virgins because they haven't engaged in sex. The aren't virgins because they have intact hymens.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Will you agree that a horse-riding young girl whose hymen ruptures is a sexually experienced young lady?

Of course not. But I never claimed otherwise.

-A8

[adiaireton8]

Those verses are not teaching that there are not various degrees of righteousness and wickedness.

-A8

[RobbyS]

And we believe that the authority of the Church comes from the Holy Spirit. But humanly speaking, the question has to be asked: How do we know which writings are inspired and which not. Did the Holy Spirt tell Luther that Maccabees was not inspired?

[HarleyD]

Do you believe our Lord Jesus passed out of Mary as "light through a window" keeping Mary's virginity in check or do you believe our Lord Jesus was born in the "natural" way? Where is the scriptures or the early church father's writing on this?

I'll stick with blue-duncan's and forest keeper's analysis.

[blue-duncan]

Alright for at least the third time on as many threads, here is the scriptural listing of Jesus’ siblings.

At the foot of the cross there are four women mentioned (Matt. 27:56, Mark 15:40, John 19:25):

Mary, Jesus’ mother who had Jesus and four named sons (James, Joseph, Jude, Simon) and daughters (Matt. 13:55, Mark 6:3); James(Gal. 1:19, 2:9, Acts 15, 21:18, Jude 1:1) Jude(Jude1:1). His brothers are mentioned in Luke 8:19 and 1 Cor. 9:5.

Mary Cleopas (Alpheas) sister of Mary, Jesus’ mother. She had two sons James the less, son of Alpheas, and Joseph (Matt. 27:56, Mark 15:40).

Salome, wife of Zebedee who had two sons, John, James.

Mary Magdalene with no children mentioned.