Which One God ? ( Comparing the Christian and Muslim Conceptions of God ).

National Review ^ | 12/04/2006 | Bat Yeor

[roamer_1]

I found this when I first started to hear about the expectations Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had for the "Mahdi" and it stunned me how it paralleled the Biblical account, but in reverse. I tell people that the two belief systems (Christian vs Islamic eschatology) seem to fit together like a "zipper".

That, my FRiend is exactly the fact. Absolutely astounding.

Ahmadinejad is kinda like the Anti-John-the-Baptist too, paving the way, making ready for the 12th Mahdi who will come (crawl) up out of the well (pit) where he has been hidden (kept) until the appointed time... YIKES!

-Bruce

[Biggirl]

In the end, as it is said in the NT, "every knee shall bend, every mouth proclaim that Jesus is Lord". That means at the end of the age all will have to accept that Jesus is God.

[Liberty Tree Surgeon]

Per this website, Islamia.com, the Koran has 6,666 verses.

[fish hawk]

I'm sorry to argue with you. If I'd have known you were full of years of Catholic doctrine instead of an open mind to facts I would not have got into this discussion with you at all. Every one knows you can't argue with the brain washed. 2000 years of belief in something wrong does not make it a reality. Transubstantiation for instance.

[pgyanke]

HAHAHAHA... as you say, you can't argue with someone not open to facts. May God bless you.

[bornacatholic]

No. All three Faiths are monotheistic. All three faiths worship one God who created everything out of nothing. All Three Faiths know God has a divine Nature but not all Three Faiths understand there exists three persons in that Divine Nature

[bornacatholic]

Maybe Jesus spoke those words (repeatedly? Where does the Bible say that?) because He had emptied Himself of His Divinity to experinence in His human nature the consequence of sin.

[fish hawk]

Go argue with Dr. R.B. Thieme, not me. He pointed out that the verb used in the imperfect tense indicated this. If you read his bio you will find that he is an expert in Hebrew and Greek. The Bible was written in those languages, no? Of course your local Padre knows better than the biblical scholars.

[pgyanke]

Of course your local Padre knows better than the biblical scholars.

Can't speak for the local Padre but considering we Catholics don't marginalize Books with which we disagree (James, Apocrypha and Deuterocanonicals) and discount the Words of Jesus at The Last Supper as an empty ritual, I think I'll take our 2,000 years of understanding and development over this Johnny-come-lately.

Again, I know many graduates from DTS and respect their knowledge. However, I also know from my conversations with them that DTS starts from the perspective that the Catholic Church is wrong... and seeks an alternate explanation. That's not how you FIND truth... it's how you INVENT it.

[bornacatholic]

If you read his bio you will find that he is an expert in Hebrew and Greek.

The Bible was written in those languages, no?

*Do you think he had access to the original autographs?

Of course your local Padre knows better than the biblical scholars

*Oh, yes. I agree. After all, we wrote every single word of the New Testament. We wrote it and we decided what texts, among the MANY circulating, would be included in the Canon of Scripture and which texts would be excluded from the Canon of Scripture. The Church established by Jesus (matt 16:18,19) preceeded the New Testament.

Isn;t it Common Sense the authors of a work would know it better than those who were not the authors?

[fish hawk]

Are those the same guys that wrote Matt: 23:9 Call no man your father on earth: for one is your Father which is in heaven. One should pay attention to these words as they were spoken by Jesus himself.

Actually Catholics did NOT write the Bible. It was already written and they only copied the old writings. It was originally written in Hebrew and Greek.

[bornacatholic]

http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/deuteros/graham4.html

[bornacatholic]

JOB 29..16 I was the father of the poor: and the cause which I knew not, I searched out most diligently

Acts 7...Who said: Ye men, brethren, and fathers, hear. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charan.

Romans 9...And not only she. But when Rebecca also had conceived at once, of Isaac our father

1 John 2..I write unto you, fathers, because you have known him, who is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because you have overcome the wicked one.

[fish hawk]

I can't argue with you brain washed catholics so let me just say that if you accepted Jesus Christ as your savior, you are headed for eternal life. All the other catholic blah blah blah means nothing. It has always been used to control the masses. And usually if you didn't grasp it you were burned at the stake. Henry the VIII and Martin Luther were the best things that ever happened in Europe. (although Henry did it for other reasons)

[Capt. Tom]

No. All three Faiths are monotheistic. All three faiths worship one God who created everything out of nothing. All Three Faiths know God has a divine Nature but not all Three Faiths understand there exists three persons in that Divine Nature

The Muslims don't believe in a Trinity. They have reason not to. In the Koran Ch 5 line 72-73 Allah slaps down the Christian idea of a Trinity.

.Here is the line-<

> "5.72": Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Marium; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust.

"5.73": Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve.

Here are more translations of that line debunking any idea that there is a trinity involved. If you believe in a Trinity you are not a Muslim since they worship a different God that you do.

005.073 YUSUFALI: They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

PICKTHAL: They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no Allah save the One Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.

SHAKIR: Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one Allah, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve.

So in Islam it is one God no Trinity involved. And that comes from Allah himself via the Koran.

If you are praying to a God that has other divine persons involved, you are praying to a different God than Allah. - tom

[bornacatholic]

I can't argue with you brain washed catholics

* I was born a catholic so I only needed a light rinse

Martin Luther... the best things that ever happened in Europe...

*Here's you boy, Luther....

"We concede -- as we must -- that so much of what they the Catholic Church say is true: that the papacy has God's word and the office of the apostles, and that we have received Holy Scriptures, Baptism, the Sacrament, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them?"

Sermon on the gospel of St. John, chaps. 14 - 16 (1537), in vol. 24 of LUTHER'S WORKS, St. Louis, Mo.: Concordia, 1961, 304

[bornacatholic]

The Muslims don't believe in a Trinity.

* Yes. I understand that. That was sorta my point :)

Muslims pray to the same God as we do. They just have a less-developed idea of who God is due to many factors. Their doctrine about God is objectively heretical (not that they know that. If they did then it would be formal heresy)

However, they pray to one soverign God who is the author of all Creation as they, in their limited way, understand Him.

I will post an arguement to you you may find helpful

[bornacatholic]

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207bt.asp

[fish hawk]

Is that why they wanted to burn him? That last statement you quoted may be true BUT what about transubstantiation, purgatory and all the other crap they put out of which NONE of it is in the Bible. You can't even say it was wrongly interpreted or misquoted because it was made up by your "Fathers".

[pgyanke]

THESE are your heroes?!?!?! HAHAHAHAHA...

Henry VIII: Left the Church because the Pope wouldn't split that which God had joined under the false pretenses under which is was petitioned. This is the same Henry VIII that wrote Assertio Septem Sacramentorum in defense of Catholic Doctrine and the primacy of the Papacy against Luther when the Church wasn't at odds with him. This is the same Henry VIII that was first called "Defender of the Faith" by Pope Leo X... note, it wasn't about the Church of England.

Martin Luther: Believed in the real presence of Christ in the elements of the Mass, believed in predestination theology, and added a word to Scripture to make out of whole cloth his doctrine of "Sola Scriptura."

Fair weather friends... You can have them.