[bornacatholic]

Yeah..but as for having to publicly admit as much it is a bit like being forced to eat SPAM at a table where everybody else is eating giant slabs from a beautiful Prime Rib Roast.

[Wallace T.]

Quoting from Lumen Gentium, above, "They are fully incorporated in the society of the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ accept her entire system and all the means of salvation given to her, and are united with her as part of her visible bodily structure and through her with Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. The bonds which bind men to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion."

You stated a hypothesis that the Fathers and Doctors of past centuries would wholly agree with the teachings of Catholicism as it stands in 2006, even though their writings during their life indicate disagreement on specific issues. Hans Kung and Nicholas Gruner are men in 2006 who do not wholly agree with these teachings. There is no need to speculate as to where they stand. I further understand that Father Gruner may presently be in active disobedience to his ecclesiastical superiors. How then, given the definition in Lumen Gentium, can these men be Catholics?