My friend and I attended our local "Mainline Evangelical Church" this past Sunday, and we heard what we suspect to be serious doctrinal error preached from the pulpit.
First thing during the Question and Answer time, my friend took the opportunity to point out the error in the teaching, but the preacher was adamant.
Before we fight this guns blazing, we wanted to run our first salvo in this fight by the faithful Christians of FreeRepublic, and make sure we're not making any wrong assumptions. We're not looking for stylistic, grammatical, or diction related errors (we'll fix 'em). We want to make sure we're on the money with regard to sound biblical exegesis, and doctrine before we fight this.
Thank you for your time,
ROTB
Perhaps this ought to go in "religion"?
later study ping
Perhaps you could redefine enemies King David might
have been lamenting the struggle within himself.
And asking God to remove the internal drives within him
which had caused him so much grief.
Your pastor might not have looked at it this way
but I think that that is the interpretation.
Another question for you would you
stand around preaching while someone was killing or torturing your family?
This turn the other cheek passage should not be taken
as a command to suicide, you are definitely a very confused person and I hope you regain clairty soon.
Another question for you would you
stand around preaching while someone was killing or torturing your family?
This turn the other cheek passage should not be taken
as a command to suicide, you are definitely a very confused person and I hope you regain clairty soon.
Your preacher is trying to trick you. Time to go somewhere else.
There is no conflict between the Old and the New Testament. Only bad Exegesis Y'shua had a conflict with the religious elite, The difference was the Holy Word of G-d You need a better understanding of the whole Word of G-d.
b'shem Y'shua
The same G-d wrote both the old and the new.
who imposed a thousand more rules for the Sabbath
than was required by G-d.
verses the man-made Traditions.
The minister is correct. Turning the other cheek is technically the right thing to do. That is what ultimately destroyed the Roman Empire. Today, it's harder because there are few who are fundamentalists in their hearts. Check catholicfundamentalism.com to see a new approach, God programmed enough particles to make the world, as we know it, in a week.
We are given free will on this world to see if we value Him more or less than what He created. One way we show that we value Him is obedience. Ergo, turn the other cheek.
Let me share something that might help you:
First, I have a high view of scripture. All of it, every word of the 66 books in our canon, is God's word. To disbelieve, disobey, or even doubt it is a sin, and it is our life's occupation to study it. Taking such a view will, surprisingly, lead to a wondrous and joyful adventure.
Having said that:
Recently I have listened to some insightful sermons of my pastor. (God has used this man for his glory.)
I am learning that one way to appreciate the Psalms is to realize they are the Psalmist's deepest emotions, poured out to God. Try to understand them in this way. When you use the words "apply", I am not sure it is absolutely the most helpful way to look at them. Of course, we apply all of God's word to our lives. However, there are some passages which would pose a problem if we tried to "apply them" in the way you seem to struggling with this Psalm (or the teaching you heard).
For instance, how do you apply, "Judas went out and hanged himself"? Well, you don't "apply" it, at least not in the same way you apply, "Show kindness to one another." Instead, you learn the whole context of the passage, find God's message, and learn from it.
One thing you can learn from the Psalms: You are free to pour out your emotions to God, completely, utterly, crying out and sobbing if you need to. You can say the wrong words. You can get your theology wrong when you pray to God. Be honest, ask him to help you, and throw yourself at him for mercy, strength and guidance.
He will always listen, loving you and planning special surprises to unleash in your life. You are completely safe. Absolutely, completely safe.
Read the Psalm again, and put yourself in the Psalmist's place. Where was he? What were his circumstances? Why was he having the emotions he was having?
One more thing to remember as a conservative. Liberals seem to have a problem with emotions. They live by them, celebrate them, and wallow in them. Emotions are a terrible guide when you need wisdom.
But conservatives have a problem with emotions as well, just a different one. They are afraid of them. They find it hard, especially in the company of other Christians, to admit to their deepest emotions, and are often offended by those who show them, especially the really scary, ugly and strong emotions.
Pray your fears. Pray your tears. Don't stuff them, don't celebrate them. That is what the Psalmist is doing. Emotions can be a wonderful path to a deeper prayer life, and, in the end, will eventually turn to praise. Read the very last few Psalms and see the unmitigated praise they convey.
Give this a bit of thought, read a couple of Psalms with this in mind, and let me know what you think.
Silly
Yah'shua, the name of the L-rd. His Name gives us hope as it do for David, Take comfort today in verse 3
b'shem Yah'shua say unto my soul: 'I am Thy salvation.'
Rejoice -- YHvH has become my salvation.
YHvH has become my Salvation.
Psa 35:12 They repay me evil for good, To the bereavement of my soul. Psa 35:13 But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth; I humbled my soul with fasting, And my prayer kept returning to my bosom.Psa 35:14 I went about as though it were my friend or brother; I bowed down mourning, as one who sorrows for a mother. Psa 35:15 But at my stumbling they rejoiced and gathered themselves together; The smiters whom I did not know gathered together against me, They slandered me without ceasing.
David did the Christian thing here while his enemies repaid him evil for good.
Psa 35:26 Let those be ashamed and humiliated altogether who rejoice at my distress; Let those be clothed with shame and dishonor who magnify themselves over me. Psa 35:27 Let them shout for joy and rejoice, who favor my vindication; And let them say continually, "The LORD be magnified, Who delights in the prosperity of His servant."
Here, it looks like David wants his enemies brought low so they will humble themselves to the Lord.
Psa 35:17 Lord, how long will You look on? Rescue my soul from their ravages, My only life from the lions.
How long, Lord, will You look at this sinful planet before executing Your Judgement? Lord, I pray, you rescue my soul as well.
IMHO, this is how I would approach your article. Balance your studies with how we are to respect legitimate authority.
As a simple check on your thinking and actions, consider love as the most important commandment, but also consistent with His divinely established institutions.
Will (volition), marriage, family and national governance were all divinely established institutions for believer and unbeliever alike.
Freedom without authority is anarchy. Authority without justice is tyranny. Freedom exists in those institutions insofar as legitimate authority remains just.
Our number one priority in the Church Age is to remain faithful to Him through faith in Christ. In this fashion He indwells us with the Son, Holy SPirit and the Father.
By remaining in fellowship with Him in all things, His plan is accomplished by our good works. Those good works might indeed be the defense of legitimate authority.
Adversity in death and in life is inevitable. Stress is optional, through our remaining faithful and in fellowship with Him through faith in Christ.
In the last days some will persevere and others will go into captivity. Vengeance is the Lord's, but this doesn't keep us from remaining obedient to legitimate authority of the institutions He has provided.
If those institutions become corrupted to the point that living within those corruptions removes one from fellowship with God, then we must persevere with Him.
Many times we might be faced with apparant solutions to problems by worldly or carnal mechanisms which are independent of Him. These are to be avoided. Likewise, the Lord never disallowed force to be used in the enforcement of legitimate authority through the will of Him. Even in the Garden of Gethsemanie (sp?) when the sentry had his ear cut off and our Lord healed it, note that our Lord and Savior was remaining obedient to the Father and acted through faith with the Holy Spirit healing the body. The import was not of a pacifist, but of a perfect man, in body, soul and spirit, who discerned where others were acting from soulish perspectives, yet in His perfect body soul and spirit, had already discerned spiritually He had been destined to submit to the Judgment of the Father.
So much of what our Lord endured was merely efforts by adversarial spirits to attempt to sidetrack our Lord from remaining faithful, but even those efforts telegraphed the lack of faith of those tempting Him, believing their soulish conditions independent of the Living God were a modus operendi for problem solving.
The violence of unrighteous evil must be met by righteous violence to enforce justice. The power and force to implement that justice might not always be at our disposal immediately, but through faith in Christ all things are counted for good.
We should always be good and faithful servants anticipating His immenant return, but that might imply good works with force, not impotent of His will.
Remember, the most violent act of all human history was performed on our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus. Violence is a conflict of will and the most violent act was the obedient will of the perfect Son, seeking to remain obedient to the Father and retain fellowship with Him, while the Father in His perfect Righteousness, immutably had to mete out perfect justice on the Son when the sins of all humanity were imputed upon Him, resulting in the separation of the Body, soul and spirit of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus on the Cross. He has already performed that sacrifice. None other is required other than us to sacrifice the old man when we are reborn in Him.
Our mandate is to remain in fellowship with Him, not to be pacifists. Pacificism is one of the most carnal and worldly methods for unbelievers to follow. A believer who fails to remain in fellowship with God when faced by adversity, simply looks for something the individual can think, decisde, act or behave to influence events independent of God through faith in Christ. That frantic search might be by bodily violence or it might be in complete cowardly submission. Neither, if performed out of fellowship with Him are righteous.
Hope this might offer edification of your spirit, but only through Him and not myself.
I doubt if you attend a “mainline evangelical” church today you are going to find out much. I mean this kindly but your pastor is probably going to fumble around a lot, say how the word of God is inspired, and give some pretty good explanations on some things. But on the verses like Psalms or Jeremiah he will probably scratch his head and say it requires further research.
Psalms 35 is not in conflict with the rest of scripture. Many in the churches today believe that God loves all men and then you come across something like Psalms 35 and they can’t explain it. I would refer you to John Gill’s commentary on Psalms 35. There is nothing as good as some old time teaching.
Jesus was a good rabbi.
There's one thing missing from the above teaching. The responsibilities that God gives government differs from the responsibilities given to the individual. In the New Testament, believers are to overcome evil with good, and to bless those who curse. Government's responsibility is to execute wrath on the disobedient. Liberals like to swap these responsibilities.