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To: NYer
This christianity thing is not about Peter, Rome or any apostle, It isn't even about the name on the front door of your church.

It is about Jesus Christ.

852 posted on 10/23/2006 8:11:07 AM PDT by exnavy (God bless America)
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To: exnavy
It is about Jesus Christ.

Which Jesus? The Jesus of the Mormons? The Jesus of the Muslims? The Jesus of the Unitarians?

-A8

855 posted on 10/23/2006 8:16:14 AM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: exnavy
It is about Jesus Christ.

Just thought it was worth repeating.. *g*

931 posted on 10/23/2006 10:34:56 AM PDT by proud_2_B_texasgal (Blood-bought, born again, spirit-filled ..........................)
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To: exnavy
This christianity thing is not about Peter, Rome or any apostle, It isn't even about the name on the front door of your church. It is about Jesus Christ.

Yes, it is about Christ. However, you must listen to what it is that Christ is saying when He speaks to us through Scripture and heed His wishes.


Christ stated that the Church, not Scripture should be the final authority:  "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the Church: but if he neglect to hear the Church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican." (Matthew 18:17 )  Christ did not state to refer to or consult Scripture for disputes and correction.  He said to go to the Church as It is the final authority in Christianity.  In addition, St. Paul states that the Church, not Scripture is "THE pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:15)  Since the Church alone is mentioned as the pillar of truth, then It alone has the right to discern the truth and interpret Scripture.  For if individuals could correctly interpret Scripture, then all interpretations would be exactly the same as there can only be one Spiritual Truth for the plural of the word "truth" never appears in Scripture.  The Church is Christ's bride (Ephesians 5:29) and has "no spot, wrinkle or blemish" (Ephesians 5:27).  Christ also stated that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church (Matthew 16:18) so how can the Church commit error?  Individual clergy may commit sins, even popes commit sins because in the Church there are both "weeds and wheat" (Matthew 13:30).

Is the Church to be a loose conglomerate of believers or is it to be organized and structured?  Scripture clearly established "offices" and a "hierarchy" among Christians.  The offices of "bishop, priest (presbyter) and deacon" are mentioned in Scripture (1 Timothy 3:1,8; Titus 1:7 ).  What else is this but "organization?"  Or should we believe that any believer can "claim" to be a bishop, priest, deacon or even "apostle?"  The word "office" is specifically used in Scripture (1 Timothy 3:1) to describe these positions.  Webster defines "office" as "A special duty, trust, charge, or position, conferred by authority or God and for a public purpose; a position of trust or authority."  And the office of "apostle" is to be continued (Acts 1:20-26) to the present day.  Not all believers are "equal" nor have the same gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-10; Ephesians 4:11).   Is the Church a "visible, earthly" entity?  Yes, for Christ would not direct us to the Church for disputes if it were not here on Earth (Matthew 18:17).   Nor would "fear" encompass the whole Church if it were a mystical, invisible and heavenly entity (Acts 5:11).  The Church is definitely here on earth for the actions described in Acts definitely take place on earth and the term used is "the whole Church" (Acts 15:22).

Is there to be only one Church or many?  According to Scripture, Christ wanted us to be one (John 17:22-23).  We are all as a Church to be of one mind and to think the same (Philippians 2:2; Romans 15:5).  There is only to be one "faith" (Ephesians 4:3-6), not many.  For the Church is Christ's Body and Christ only had one Body, not many.  Also, since the Church is Christ's Bride (Ephesians 5:29), can Christ be married to more than one wife (essentially a spiritual form of the the sin of polygamy)?  No, Christ can only have one wife (i.e., one Church, not many).

Scripture is pretty straightforward about the Church's role in salvation, Its authority and Its organization.  It's all a matter of deductive reasoning, correct interpretation and pure logic.

1,096 posted on 10/23/2006 4:31:28 PM PDT by NYer
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