So who are the discerning? You, I suppose? Out of the 20,000+ Protestant sects, you and your fellow [let me guess, Pentecostals] are the discerning ones? My point is that each sect thinks its own members are the discerning ones. Who determines who are the "discerning"? Second-order discerners? You see how this leads either to an infinite regress, a viscious circle, or an arbitrarily determined starting point (e.g. me and all those who think just like me; *we're* the discerning ones). That is why I said that the gnostic position you advance removes the possibility of determining objectively who has the anointing. Because it is entirely subjective, your position reduces to "everybody has the anointing", which means in practice, that nobody has the anointing.
-A8
Provided the believer remains in faith through Christ, he continues in that anointing and the work of the Holy Spirit within the believer provides sufficiency in the believer's thinking to discern properly.
If the believer is scarred by past thinking, such as placing faith in any other person before Christ, then he falls out of fellowship and the Holy Spirit is not free to further sanctify the believer in sin, but is grieved until the believer returns to God, confesses and turns away from sin, allowing that past sin to be removed as an obstacle to their fellowship.
I didn't think I stuttered in the above. FOLKS WHO LIVE AND WALK AS THE ABOVE ARE IN ALL THE REMOTELY BIBLICAL CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATIONS. I've met a number of Roman Believers who fit such criteria. But most believer in most to virtually all Christian organizations DO NOT MEET SUCH CRITERIA BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO PAY THE PRICE in the way they live. And, too often, that has included me.
So who are the discerning? You, I suppose?
It depends on a number of issues.
1. What is God doing in the situation.
2. How heavy was the anointing. In many situations, the anointing is so heavy, one would have to be dead to miss it's being lifted and gone. Even the unsaved immediately sense it.
3. How close to fitting the criteria above is the individual doing the sensing, perceiving AT THAT MOMENT IN THAT SITUATION? The very spiritually sensitive and VERY FULL OF HOLY SPIRIT can detect very subtle transitions and departures of Holy Spirit's anointing.
4. How distracted vs tuned in is the person doing the sensing, perceiving?
Out of the 20,000+ Protestant sects,
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh . . . The Roman organization is not a denomination but we are sects? Comes across as cheeky uncute. Hereafter, I'll feel little to no compunctions about referring to the Roman organization as a denomination or a sect.
you and your fellow [let me guess, Pentecostals] are the discerning ones? My point is that each sect thinks its own members are the discerning ones.
See above. I'm talking about spiritual realities--not spiritual assumptions and biases. I'm talking about WHAT GOD LITERALY DOES AND DOESN'T DO IN A GIVEN SITUATION AT A GIVEN TIME with given people . . . not stereotypic assumptions and biases and pontifications. I'M TALKING ABOUT WHAT GOD DISCERNABLY, DETECTABLY DOES . . . reality--sometimes tangible reality.
Who determines who are the "discerning"? Second-order discerners?
I'm not talking AT ALL ABOUT LABELING FOLKS AS DISCERNERS OR NONDISCERNERS. I'm talking about INDIVIDUALS IN ALL CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATIONS, INCLUDING THE ROMAN DENOMINATION, DOING EFFECTIVE DISCERNING whether one is a "lowly" toilet cleaner worker or a 'high ranking' religionist. And in my experience, it's usually the so called 'lowly' who discern best.
You see how this leads either to an infinite regress, a viscious circle, or an arbitrarily determined starting point (e.g. me and all those who think just like me; *we're* the discerning ones).
UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, NO!!!!! I DON'T SEE THAT, AT ALL! The starting point is not arbitrary. The starting point is Scriptural, reality based, operationally defined; literal reality based; often overtly clear; common phenomena in all denominations of any serious Biblical foundation at all.
That is why I said that the gnostic position you advance
EXCUSE ME! I advance no gnostic position. It MAY be construed as that by folks who are, from my perspective, using words in interesting ways from rubber dictionaries. But that's not my reality.
It's interesting that it's not OK to describe some folks' orientations, organizations hereon as perceived by the writer IF that differs from how the individual claims is reality. But the shoe is not on the other foot. The same courtesy is not extended. Smells like a double standard, to me. And it stinks.
I'm talking about HOLY SPIRIT REALITY VERY IN TOUCH WITH, IMPARTED TO; INDWELLING MAN; WITH TANGIBLE REALITY; WITH HUMAN AGENTS.
removes the possibility of determining objectively who has the anointing. Because it is entirely subjective,
HOGWASH. Holy Spirit is the most objective participant observer there is. He is Truth, Author of Truth. Tuning n to HIS TRUTH is not at all undoable. Primarily one has to be obedient and live a largely obedient, broken and contrite spirited, Spirit-Filled life as well as one can, by God's Grace, manage.
Assuming one meets the criteria for Holy Spirit to operate in one's life to that degree, such discernment is fairly automatic, instant, quite detectable, quite clear. In some subtle situations, a beginner might misconstrue but in maybe even a majority of situations, a vast majority of folks meeting the criteria will instantly get the message in their spirits, their inner person, via The Spirit's still small voice or a feeling, an impression that is characteristic of Holy Spirit and unmistakable.
And, I believe in the coming months and years, God will be doing such grand, very overt things . . . it will be obvious to the man on the street.
And the evil forces have come raging onto the world stage in these end times . . . and will be doing more so . . . such that when God's Anointing leaves, the cold, chilling, black, ugly, darkness will overtly descend over the situation in many, many cases.
your position reduces to "everybody has the anointing", which means in practice, that nobody has the anointing.
NOT MY POSITION. NOT MY REALITY. NOT REMOTELY ACCURATE.
Respecting one another's constructions on reality flows both ways, BTW.