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To: adiaireton8
What about the other stuff I said?

The same is true today. Yes, God could send His Holy Spirit to someone. But the appointed means is through the bishops in succession from the Apostles.

These being the same bishops who hide the sins of their priests? These being the same bishops who advocate breaking civil law in direct violation of scripture? I, sir, am not willing to delegate my salvation to fallible men. I prefer to take the writing of Paul to heart and take responsibility for my own salvation, to believe on the Lord, to confess my sins to Him, the only Mediator between God and men, to study the Word, and be prepared to testify whenever the case arises.

414 posted on 10/22/2006 4:26:01 PM PDT by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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To: kerryusama04
What standard do we use to say "Jesus was Jesus"?

I don't understand the question. Are you asking a question about logic, (i.e. how do we know that x = x)?

How does anyone know that He was Jesus?

I don't understand this question either. There are many different ways of taking this question, so if you have a genuine question, you need to clarify and focus the question.

What did the One Holy Apostolic Church of the day want to do to Jesus?

When you say "the day", to what time period are you referring? Without knowing that, I cannot know exactly what you are asking.

You asked some good questions about discerning prophets under the old covenant. And a person might discern the truth of the Church just by seeing its character and testimony. But in this era, no one has more ecclesial authority than the Apostles and the bishops whom they have ordained. As Jesus Himself said, “He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” (Luke 10:16) That does not mean that the bishops are in every way infallible. Nor does it mean that a bishop could not be rightly rebuked by an unbeliever, if the bishop was in sin. If a person claiming to be a prophet were to arise today, and were to reject what the Catholic Church teaches and has always taught, we would know him to be false prophet.

I know that scripture is plain on the big issues

If that were true, then all 20,000+ Protestant sects are dividing the body of Christ over petty issues.

If the scriptures were so hierarchal

I never claimed that the scriptures are hierarchical.

These being the same bishops who hide the sins of their priests? These being the same bishops who advocate breaking civil law in direct violation of scripture?

If you want to learn about the relation between the moral state of the bishop and the efficacy of the sacraments he administers, study the Donatist controversy.

I, sir, am not willing to delegate my salvation to fallible men.

I don’t know exactly what you mean by “delegate my salvation”. But everything I know about Jesus I have learned through fallible men. If you have a direct pipeline to heaven, good for you.

I prefer to take the writing of Paul to heart and take responsibility for my own salvation, to believe on the Lord, to confess my sins to Him, the only Mediator between God and men, to study the Word, and be prepared to testify whenever the case arises.

Catholics believe and practice all those things too, so that isn’t the issue that separates Protestants and Catholics. The fundamental issue on which all the other issues depend, is whether Christ gave authority to a living Magesterium or not. The answer to that question can be found both by studying Scripture and the Church fathers.

-A8

499 posted on 10/22/2006 6:03:40 PM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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