Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: NYer
We are one in faith in Christ Jesus. However the Church Universal is not the same thing as the Roman Catholic Church. In the Church Universal are Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants, among others. Faith in Christ Jesus is our foundation. Catholic doctrine believes that we non-Catholics who have faith but suffer "invincible ignorance" are united to the Catholic faith by desire. There is only one Bride of Christ. It is not based in Rome alone.

I don't see how you can say that the Reformers separated from Rome out of ego. It was not personal vanity that led Luther, Calvin, Zwlingli, Hus, and others, except save in the case of the Anglicans. Yes, these men had strong personalities, but if they did not sincerely believe in the Protestant solas, they would have been successful Catholic priests and bishops. Yet their zeal was for the Gospel of Christ, despite their laws.

Corrupted by Rome? I will state that the doctrine of justification by faith alone was corrupted from Augustine's day, for example. Furthermore, the reliance on Tradition as a source coequal with Scripture was erroneous. Tradition is valuable, but it cannot replace the supremacy of Scripture.
153 posted on 10/22/2006 10:10:18 AM PDT by GAB-1955 (being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the Kingdom of Heaven....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 120 | View Replies ]


To: GAB-1955
We are one in faith in Christ Jesus. However the Church Universal is not the same thing as the Roman Catholic Church. In the Church Universal are Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants, among others. Faith in Christ Jesus is our foundation. Catholic doctrine believes that we non-Catholics who have faith but suffer "invincible ignorance" are united to the Catholic faith by desire. There is only one Bride of Christ. It is not based in Rome alone.

First off, the Roman Catholic Church is one of 22 churches that make up the One Holy Catholic Church. Although it is not widely known in our Western world, the Catholic Church is actually a communion of Churches. According to the Constitution on the Church of the Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, the Catholic Church is understood to be "a corporate body of Churches," united with the Pope of Rome, who serves as the guardian of unity (LG, no. 23). At present there are 22 Churches that comprise the Catholic Church. The new Code of Canon Law, promulgated by Pope John Paul II, uses the phrase "autonomous ritual Churches" to describe these various Churches (canon 112). Each Church has its own hierarchy, spirituality, and theological perspective. Because of the particularities of history, there is only one Western Catholic Church, while there are 22 Eastern Catholic Churches. The Western Church, known officially as the Latin Church, is the largest of the Catholic Churches. It is immediately subject to the Roman Pontiff as Patriarch of the West. The Eastern Catholic Churches are each led by a Patriarch, Major Archbishop, or Metropolitan, who governs their Church together with a synod of bishops. Through the Congregation for Oriental Churches, the Roman Pontiff works to assure the health and well-being of the Eastern Catholic Churches.

According to Scripture, Christ wanted us to be one (John 17:22-23).  We are all as a Church to be of one mind and to think the same (Philippians 2:2; Romans 15:5).  There is only to be one "faith" (Ephesians 4:3-6), not many.  For the Church is Christ's Body and Christ only had one Body, not many.  Also, since the Church is Christ's Bride (Ephesians 5:29), can Christ be married to more than one wife (essentially a spiritual form of the the sin of polygamy)?  No, Christ can only have one wife (i.e., one Church, not many).

I don't see how you can say that the Reformers separated from Rome out of ego. It was not personal vanity that led Luther, Calvin, Zwlingli, Hus, and others, except save in the case of the Anglicans. Yes, these men had strong personalities, but if they did not sincerely believe in the Protestant solas, they would have been successful Catholic priests and bishops. Yet their zeal was for the Gospel of Christ, despite their laws.

Ego = personal disagreement.

"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect." - 1 Corinthians 1:10-17

St. Paul begs the early Christians to be unified in mind and in what they say. There can only be one "true" Christian Church. How can the Holy Spirit guide the Catholic Church, the Lutheran Church, the Presbyterian Church, the Baptist Church, etc. if all of those denominations have doctrines and beliefs differing from each other? There is only one interpretation of the Bible. Otherwise, people can and have "read" literally anything into It.

I will state that the doctrine of justification by faith alone was corrupted from Augustine's day, for example.

In James 2:17,26 - James clearly teaches that faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. Works are a cause, not just an effect, of our justification because good works achieve and increase our justification before God. Scripture never says anything about “saving faith.” Can you show me from the Scriptures that “works” qualify the “faith” into saving faith? Scriptures teach that justification is achieved only when “faith and works” act together. Scripture puts no qualifier on faith. Scripture also never says that faith “leads to works.” Faith is faith and works are works (James 2:18). They are distinct (mind and action), and yet must act together in order to receive God’s unmerited gift of justification.

Furthermore, the reliance on Tradition as a source coequal with Scripture was erroneous. Tradition is valuable, but it cannot replace the supremacy of Scripture.

The Bible Itself states that there are "oral" teachings and traditions that are to be carried on to the present-day (2 Thessalonians 2:15; 1 Corinthians 11:2; 2 Timothy 2:2; Romans 10:17; 1 Peter 1:24-25).  These teachings are what the Catholic Church considers "Sacred Apostolic Tradition."  This type of "Tradition" never changes because it was passed down by the Apostles themselves.  It is not the same as the man-made traditions condemned in Scripture.  The man-made traditions condemned in Scripture were those of the Jewish Pharisees.  In fact, as Christians, we are supposed to disassociate ourselves from persons who do not follow Apostolic Tradition (2 Thessalonians 3:6).  If oral tradition is not to be followed, why did St. Paul state Christ said something that is not recorded in the Gospels (Acts 20:35)?  St. Paul must have "heard" this saying, not read it from any Gospel or "Scripture," thereby, proving that some things Christ said were not recorded in the Gospels (John 21:25) and were passed on orally among His disciples instead, but were just as valid as anything written since St. Paul himself used one of these oral passages in one of his own epistles.

Show me where in Scripture it states that the Bible is the sole and only authority of Christianity.

194 posted on 10/22/2006 12:51:29 PM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 153 | View Replies ]

To: GAB-1955
Furthermore, the reliance on Tradition as a source coequal with Scripture was erroneous. Tradition is valuable, but it cannot replace the supremacy of Scripture.

Scripture never says that reliance on Apostolic Tradition as a source coequal with Scripture is erroneous. Nor does the Catholic Church teach that Apostolic Tradition should "replace the supremacy of Scripture". What the Apostles wrote down is equal in authority to what the Apostles spoke but did not write down (i.e. Apostolic Tradition). That is because the source of both is the very same (i.e. the Apostles).

-A8

1,918 posted on 10/30/2006 9:57:34 AM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 153 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson