I never said I couldn't tell you. We can (and should, though with humility and caution, and by the appropriate means) bring to light serious sins committed by the clergy. In fact, we have a duty to do so, out of love for them and for the holiness and purity of Christ's Church.
Following your logic, Peter is Satan as well as the foundation of the church.
No, the premise of your argument is mistaken. That *doesn't* follow my logic. When Jesus refers to Peter as a rock, Jesus isn't confusing Peter with a dense inanimate homeomerous chunk of earth. Jesus is using the term analogously, showing the *functional* role that Peter and his successors would have in the Church. But when Jesus says "Get behind me Satan", Jesus isn't saying that Peter is Satan. Jesus is not confusing Peter with the angelic prince of darkness. Jesus is speaking to Satan (and Peter) at the same time, rebuking both of them. There is no reason whatsoever to think that Jesus thinks Peter *is* Satan. But Jesus definitely says that Peter is the rock (i.e. the foundation stone) upon which Jesus will build His Church, and to whom Jesus gives (vs. 19) the "keys of the kingdom of heaven".
Where is the term Magisterium found in scripture?
Right next to the word 'Sabbatarian'. :-)
There are many terms in theology that are not found in Scripture.
What scripture, what command of God tells us this?
All the Scriptures and commands of God come to us through the Magisterium. That is why the question itself is strange. Jesus did not write any books. He ordained Apostles with the authority to rule the Church and forgive and retain sins (Matthew 16:18-19; Luke 10:16; John 20:22-23); these Apostles ordained bishops (cf. Pillipians 1:1; 1 Tim 3; Titus 1:7) to govern the churches in the various cities. Bishops were instructed to ordain successors (2 Tim 2:2) through the laying on of hands (1 Tim 4:14; 2 Tim 1:6) with the prayer of consecration. The books of the New Testament were written by Apostles (or others under their supervision), and were over time collected, identified, preserved, copied, and canonized by the bishops.
Here's the definition of 'Magisterium' in the Catholic Catechism: "The living, teaching office of the Church, whose task it is to give an authentic interpretation of the word of God, whether in its written form (Sacred Scripture), or in the form of Tradition. The Magisterium ensures the Church's fidelity to the teaching of the Apostles in matters of faith and morals."
Who is Irenaeus?
Bishop of Lyons, c. 180 AD. You can read more about him here.
Can you really tell me the sum of the scriptures is "trust the church, not the Word of God"?
The Magisterium does *not* say that the sum of Scripture is "trust the church, not the Word of God". It would most definitely reject such a statement. One does not have to choose between trusting the Magisterium and trusting the Word of God. Only by trusting the Magisterium can we trust that we have the Word of God. The two necessarily go together.
"For my part, I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church." St. Augustine
-A8
NOT SO. I can easily grant that was the purpose once upon a time. It has failed miserably repeatedly over the centuries. History is full of such examples. It failed. Many's organizations and systems can ONLY FAIL. It is their nature.
Christ did not send us an organization to dwell within us but HIS SPIRIT. And He did not send us an organization to dwell with--BUT HIMSELF ALONE are we to dwell within AS THE TABERNACLES with us, in us.
Were I to judge the organization according to the criteria mentioned in the above post . . . I would have to flunk it utterly. It has failed far more centuries, decades, years, months, weeks, days than it has succeeded. I'm skeptical that it has succeeded since BEFORE IT'S FOUNDING.
Had it succeeded, we'd see more congruence between it and Scripture as well as between it and the predicted Scriptural results of walking intimately with Christ. We see neither. For many decades and centuries we observed THE OPPOSITE.
According to the criteria listed, the leaders and whole organization need to be fired and replaced wholesale. They have repeatedly failed and failed utterly.
That is partly why so many millions of former Romans in South America are leaving the Roman group in droves and joining Charismatic groups WHERE THE OBVIOUS AND REDEMPTIVE POWER OF GOD IS ROUTINELY DEMONSTRATED--and more miraculously, where a much higher percentage of folks are truly walking in Christ's Love to a much greater degree.
. . .
One does not have to choose between trusting the Magisterium and trusting the Word of God.
WRONG.
FOR THAT TO BE TRUE, they would have to be essentially identical. They are not. They have not been near identical since well before the founding of the organization.
And, when ANYTHING DIFFERS from THE WORD OF GOD, guess which I shall always, hopefully, choose! Otherwise does NOT help in life and certainly does NOT help deepen one's life IN GOD.
Only by trusting the Magisterium can we trust that we have the Word of God. The two necessarily go together.
WRONG.
NO INTERLOPPER CAN SUCCESSFULLY HORN IN ON THE PRIORITY OF GOD'S WORD. Nothing. What arrogance for any organization and/or group of individuals to PRESUME so. Talk about the mother of all presumptions!
CHRIST IS THE LIVING WORD, for sure. His Indwelling Spirit is to lead each individual into all truth . . . more or less without any destructive meddling by ANYONE OR ANYTHING ELSE.
GOD IS NOT THE LEAST BIT INTERESTED in having an organization between HIM AND ANY INDIVIDUAL in the SPIRITUAL MARITAL BED. Hint. God is not an idiot.
BTW, I consider the founding of the Roman organization to have been some 100-300 years or so--probably the 300 mark--AFTER CHRIST, PAUL and the lot of them. Nothing else is historically accurate, to me.
Mat 16:18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
Mat 16:23 But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."
Jesus renames Peter, then says He is going to build his church upon a rock, then He calls Peter Satan. By your logic Jesus just said He is going to build His church on Satan.
Right next to the word 'Sabbatarian'. :-)
Sabbatarian is an adjective describing a return to Biblical Truth. The root, Sabbath, is found over 60 times in the NT alone. Magesterium is not a term found in scripture.
All the Scriptures and commands of God come to us through the Magisterium.
Odd, I thought they came through the Prophets and the Apostles. And then there are the 10 Commandments God spoke Himself.
Bishop of Lyons, c. 180 AD. You can read more about him here.
And he is relevant to an argument about scripture how, exactly?
The Magisterium does *not* say that the sum of Scripture is "trust the church, not the Word of God". It would most definitely reject such a statement. One does not have to choose between trusting the Magisterium and trusting the Word of God. Only by trusting the Magisterium can we trust that we have the Word of God. The two necessarily go together.
FRiend, you have much to learn about your new faith.
Does the power of the keys give the Catholic Church the power to change God's Law?